DRUMS and notation to 4/4 KIK LIK #1 at 3 tempos...

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  • spinsmashpop
    Speed Bag Wizard

    • Nov 2008
    • 1081

    DRUMS and notation to 4/4 KIK LIK #1 at 3 tempos...

    Hi...
    After posting a clip of myself bagging while keeping time with my foot (4/4 KIK LIK #1), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmSUOXBTn6Y ,I received a request to record it so baggers can try to do the same. Or, at least punch the sequence I did to a drum groove without worrying about keeping time with the foot.
    So, I have recorded the KIK LIK #1 on my drums at 3 different tempos (slow=100 BPM (beats per minute)/ medium=120 BPMs and fast=140 BPMs), each for approx. 2 minutes. I will attempt to notate it as closely as possible to Alan Kahn's system he created.
    The sequence doesn't involve anything too advanced. It starts with some linking and goes into front circle punches, then has a some front double punches. I was ending it with fist rolling; the longer the better!
    This is only one of a million combinations any of us can come up with. I liked the sound and groove of it initially and it was one of the first grooves I came up with when I attempted to keep 1/4 notes (the pulse under the groove) with my foot.
    I think the best benefit of trying this would be gaining overall control of the bag. I would think by being able to punch evenly and smoothly in time, hand/eye coordination increases which also increases ability to punch combinations all around the bag.
    Also, I must thank Tim Platt for making these MP3's available to everyone here. I will eventually try to post more grooves I like that involve more challenging techniques of the bag. This was just a start to do something a little out of the box. Like I said, the most difficult thing will be executing these patterns in good, solid time.....

    Some notes about the notation....
    * You will hear 8 bass drums beats to get you prepared to start the punching sequence.
    * To keep the notation aligned to a measure of 4/4, I'm calling the last punch in every 4th measure the "Lone Left" (LoL) simply because, it may be part of the next punch sequence, but it feels better to me to leave it by itself to finish out the measure alone.
    *A "measure" is also commonly known as a "bar". Why? Don't know... probably because a single bar is written to separate measures....
    so...measure=bar

    ** Simple music notation lesson....
    4/4 means: 4 "1/4 note" beats per measure of music or rhythm.... it can be broken down and cut in halves; (8 "1/8 note" beats per measure) or cut in fourths; (16 "16th note" beats per measure.
    The pulse you will hear of my bass drum will be keeping "1/4 note" time for you to groove to. Like Alan Kahn says, listen for the beat. That bass drum is playing 1/4 notes. The snare drum (the drum that is "dancing" on top of the bass drum) is playing the rhythm/groove/sequence I am notating. That is what you should be locked into with your hands. The snare drum rhythm is what your punches and rebounds should sound like.

    ***It starts with 3 bars that include a figure 8 link, into FCP's and at the end of the 4th measure, continuous FCP's and a "Lone Left" (LoL) to get the whole thing repeating. I'll call that a 4 bar "Tall Sequence".
    After repeating the first 4 measures/bars 3 additional times, the 3rd time will see you replace Bar 4 FCP's with FDP's. Ending with FDP's brings you to the end of the 4th "Tall Sequence". 4 "Tall Sequences" create one "Grande' Sequence"!! (haha)
    Getting to the end of 2 "Grande' Sequences" is a "Venti Sequence"! Then start some continuous fist rolling to the end!
    If and when you get this all flowing, mirror-ize it and try it all leading with left fist! KEEP ON BAGGIN'!
    =================================

    4/4 KIK LIK #1: ****Please click on the attachment below to view the notation correctly. The thread jumbles the notation together so it looks like it's written wrong!***

    ==========================================
    A) One "Tall Sequence":

    | R R R L L L | | | R R R L L L |
    | (FCP)'' (RCP)'' (FCP)''' (FCP)''' (FCP)''' (FCP)''' | Repeat | Repeat |(FCP)''' (FCP)''' (FCP)''' (FCP)''' (FCP)''' (LoL)|
    | l_____8_____l | | | |

    B) One "Grande' Sequence":

    ***Repeat the Tall Sequence 3 times (4 times through in total.) But, the last bar of the 3rd Repeat should now be ...***

    | R L-R L-R L-R L |
    |(FCP)''' (FDP)''' (FDP)''' (FDP)''' (LoL)| ***This bar of FDP's completes one Grande' Sequence!


    C) One "Venti Sequence":

    2 Grande' Sequences = 1 Venti Sequence!!!!
    After finishing 1 Venti Sequence, go into some Fist Rolling!
    See if you can keep that up for a tall sequence, or better yet a Grande' Sequence, or longer!
    ==========================================

    Honestly, I have yet to perform top to bottom what I have just written. My 4/4 KIK LIK #1 one is 1 Tall Seq.,
    1 more Tall seq. ending with the Grande' ending, and some fist rolling to finish off!
    I do keep time with my right foot which does affect your overall balance,
    but even without that drummer stuff, this routine seems real good to get the bag rhythms all locked up!
    And that in turn will help your overall technique and hand/eye coordination !!!
    KEEP ON BAGGIN'!
    AK, please correct my notation if something is written wrong. I've never tried to notate this before! Thanks!



    Attached Files
  • Tim
    Administrator and Founder of SpeedBagForum.com


    • Jan 2006
    • 3428

    #2
    I'll be working on this ... I just printed all this out and loaded up the iPOD

    Thanks for taking the time to do this.

    Comment

    • Speedbag
      Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

      • Feb 2006
      • 7109

      #3
      Originally posted by spinsmashpop View Post
      Hi...
      After posting a clip of myself bagging while keeping time with my foot (4/4 KIK LIK #1), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmSUOXBTn6Y ,I received a request to record it so baggers can try to do the same. Or, at least punch the sequence I did to a drum groove without worrying about keeping time with the foot.....

      KEEP ON BAGGIN'!
      AK, please correct my notation if something is written wrong. I've never tried to notate this before! Thanks!



      http://www.speedbagforum.com/audio/0...IK-140-BPM.mp3
      The notation in the attachment is fine.

      I think the difficult part for the "non-drumming members" might be the syncopation of your punching beat against the steady base drum. I'm sure most people easily hear your punching beat is "in time" to the kick drum. But I think they need to understand that there is a change in punching speed to make this match up.

      That is why I start out teaching punching in "straight time" directly ON the beat, then move to the more difficulat syncopated combinations, which cause a change in punching speed to match the punch accented bag beat with the rhythm. After your opening (FCP) ' ' (RSP) ' ' (FCP), which is "1-and-2.." your three L-FCP's are syncopated against the kick drum, landing on the "and" count. Your FDP adds the "pick up beat" of the lead fist and your second fist lands "on the beat". I hear this as fitting comfortably in the 6 punch combo of the 5-1, and 3-3.

      It might help to add the "beat count" underneath, for those that can sense the count and "1" beat to know where you are in the measure. For the non-music, non-beat counting crowd, don't worry about it. Just try to "FEEL the beat" and mimic his punch beat. If you can do that, you'll probably punch it just fine.

      Like Tim said, I admire your time to write that out. It's not so easy to describe what is happening, is it? What we as drummers feel so naturally, and "just do" can be very difficult to convey, particulary on a the speed bag, which you are learning has some different rules of rhythm than pure drumming.
      Speed Bag

      Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
      *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
      The Quest Continues...
      Hoping for another Gathering...


      sigpic

      The Art of the Bag

      Comment

      • spinsmashpop
        Speed Bag Wizard

        • Nov 2008
        • 1081

        #4
        Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
        The notation in the attachment is fine.

        I think the difficult part for the "non-drumming members" might be the syncopation of your punching beat against the steady base drum. I'm sure most people easily hear your punching beat is "in time" to the kick drum. But I think they need to understand that there is a change in punching speed to make this match up.

        That is why I start out teaching punching in "straight time" directly ON the beat, then move to the more difficulat syncopated combinations, which cause a change in punching speed to match the punch accented bag beat with the rhythm. After your opening (FCP) ' ' (RSP) ' ' (FCP), which is "1-and-2.." your three L-FCP's are syncopated against the kick drum, landing on the "and" count. Your FDP adds the "pick up beat" of the lead fist and your second fist lands "on the beat". I hear this as fitting comfortably in the 6 punch combo of the 5-1, and 3-3.

        It might help to add the "beat count" underneath, for those that can sense the count and "1" beat to know where you are in the measure. For the non-music, non-beat counting crowd, don't worry about it. Just try to "FEEL the beat" and mimic his punch beat. If you can do that, you'll probably punch it just fine.

        Like Tim said, I admire your time to write that out. It's not so easy to describe what is happening, is it? What we as drummers feel so naturally, and "just do" can be very difficult to convey, particulary on a the speed bag, which you are learning has some different rules of rhythm than pure drumming.
        I agree that this is not the best rhythm or sequence to start off to when attempting to punch in time. Initially, the request was going to go straight to Tim, but we thought it would be cool to share with anyone interested.

        The best way to go to get into punch drumming is to watch the Speed Bag Bible DVDs and all Alan Kahn video clips. AK explains and demonstrates all this better than anyone. The most important thing in punch drumming is to hit on the beat. Wherever you would clap your hands or stomp your feet is where the hit should be. Maybe a good idea is to have the Bible DVD or any clip of AK punch drumming next to the speed bag. Try to punch along with it. I would imagine that being able to see it done properly while practicing it would help immensely.

        It's the year of the bag!

        Comment

        • Tim
          Administrator and Founder of SpeedBagForum.com


          • Jan 2006
          • 3428

          #5
          Originally posted by spinsmashpop View Post
          I agree that this is not the best rhythm or sequence to start off to when attempting to punch in time.
          After some difficulties with punching to the syncopation I decided to start at square one and punch in time. The pounding base drum is easy to pick out!

          I've been trying to hit syncopated, but as Alan indicated, that's a bit much for someone who is rythmically challenged. You natural musicians probably can't fathom the difficulties the rest of us have

          I video taped some in time punching tonight, as I go through it I'll determine if there's anything worth sharing with the rest of the world... other than that I'll keep practicing

          Thanks again for taking the time to do this... hopefully many people can benefit from it.

          Comment

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