Watkins Swivel

[Crapsterface]

I got my watkins ballhook. it was a little bit slower then I thought. reacts well. It dosent build up momentum and get faster as u hit i noticed. It stays the same speed. it was really loud aswell. So I took a crayon and colored the ball. it made it quiet, and I believe it even goes faster now. It dosent last long. As I kept recoloring after the wax worn off I think it started to last a little bit longer each time. I did it 4 or 5 times so far. I recomend it. of course at your own risks. everyone could hav different preferences. But the wax works good for me. theres probly a better wax I couldev use for it, that was just an experiment. For those of us that will try it I think youll be even happier with the perfomance. As long as u dont mind a colered ball LOL.

[gvee127]

Using a crayon... that's a really creative idea, I might try that. I too had the same impressions when I got mine a couple of weeks ago so I put some plumber's grease I got from home depot (~$2) around the metal ball and it helped reduce the clanking sound and moved better. The lubricant seems to hold up well too. Later this week I'm gonna try this (http://www.speedbagforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9552#post9552) from the Archive section of the forum using the Watkins metal ball with the Everlast plastic housing and hook.

[Speedbag]

Using a crayon... that's a really creative idea, I might try that. I too had the same impressions when I got mine a couple of weeks ago so I put some plumber's grease I got from home depot (~$2) around the metal ball and it helped reduce the clanking sound and moved better. The lubricant seems to hold up well too. Later this week I'm gonna try this (http://www.speedbagforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9552#post9552) from the Archive section of the forum using the Watkins metal ball with the Everlast plastic housing and hook.

I think you'll find it fast and quiet.

[royalewifcheese]

I think you'll find it fast and quiet.

yes, the hybrid approach works well. less noise and less friction(more speed)! great combination.

[Speedbagskater]

I got my watkins ballhook. it was a little bit slower then I thought. reacts well. It dosent build up momentum and get faster as u hit i noticed. It stays the same speed. it was really loud aswell. So I took a crayon and colored the ball. it made it quiet, and I believe it even goes faster now. It dosent last long. As I kept recoloring after the wax worn off I think it started to last a little bit longer each time. I did it 4 or 5 times so far. I recomend it. of course at your own risks. everyone could hav different preferences. But the wax works good for me. theres probly a better wax I couldev use for it, that was just an experiment. For those of us that will try it I think youll be even happier with the perfomance. As long as u dont mind a colered ball LOL.
I have used a lil bit of Vaseline to help speed up the metal ball swivel action, its cheap and rarely ever messy, less friction means less noise too, also by changing how much the eye bolt sticks out you can gain a lil bit of speed, and by checking out the advice on the speed bag central page, the tape wrapped around the shaft of the eye bolt will also make it less noisy..

[metaldad]

Using a crayon... that's a really creative idea, I might try that. I too had the same impressions when I got mine a couple of weeks ago so I put some plumber's grease I got from home depot (~$2) around the metal ball and it helped reduce the clanking sound and moved better. The lubricant seems to hold up well too. Later this week I'm gonna try this (http://www.speedbagforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9552#post9552) from the Archive section of the forum using the Watkins metal ball with the Everlast plastic housing and hook. I know somewhere in the archives section of the forum where Skunk did something similar, replacing the metal with the plastic.

I think you'll find it fast and quiet. Alan, is this the same swivel you gave me?

[Speedbag]

I know somewhere in the archives section of the forum where Skunk did something similar, replacing the metal with the plastic.

Alan, is this the same swivel you gave me?

Was that a plastic housing with a metal ball inside? Sorry I can't remember what I gave to whom anymore.... :confused:

If it was, then yes that is the same.

[goju]

It's a plastic ball / metal housing.. i use the same set up and it works well. Nice and fast and not too loud.

[gvee127]

I think you'll find it fast and quiet.

Thanks Alan, I finally got around to setting it up and must say this a great combo swivel. It seems just as fast if not faster than my greased up Watkins swivel and a LOT less noisy. Thanks again to Alan and Biff for recommending this.

I'm curious if there's any significant difference between the Watkins and Everlast metal balls. Has anyone compared the two in a plastic or metal housing?

[Speedbag]

Thanks Alan, I finally got around to setting it up and must say this a great combo swivel. It seems just as fast if not faster than my greased up Watkins swivel and a LOT less noisy. Thanks again to Alan and Biff for recommending this.

I'm curious if there's any significant difference between the Watkins and Everlast metal balls. Has anyone compared the two in a plastic or metal housing?

These pictures show an everlast metal ball inside the plastic housing.
Note the different shapes of the various balls. Although I didn't get a picture of it, The tapered edge of the Watkins will protrude slightly from the hole in the plastic housing. The bottom of the flat Everlast flat ball will not (shown) The Everlast ball will make for a slightly shorter rebound arc but it is a barely noticeable change in speed. Both metal balls work very well inside the plastic housing. I have not found a metal housing that is tall enough to easily accomodate the fully round plastic ball. That's OK since I'd rather not use it anyway. With the metal ball inside the plastic housing I get all the trouble free action of a ballhook and the quieter rebound of the metal on plastic.

[ote888]

mine was making noise to....like it makes a friction..... well may i know if ...a


lubricant like

WD-40 will work??? or it could make it worse??? thanks!:):)

[royalewifcheese]

mine was making noise to....like it makes a friction..... well may i know if ...a


lubricant like

WD-40 will work??? or it could make it worse??? thanks!:):)

it won't work for long, lithium grease would be better. look inside the housing and you'll see machine marks get those puppies polished out. another aproach is to go with the hybrid swiv. everlast plastic housing with the watkins ball.

[Speedbag]

it won't work for long, lithium grease would be better. look inside the housing and you'll see machine marks get those puppies polished out. another aproach is to go with the hybrid swiv. everlast plastic housing with the watkins ball.

I have not really tried that mix on the board yet. I've had a pretty fair collection of Everlast steel balls, which are flatter, and have made several of those. I may dig out my Watkins balls and drop them through a plastic housing. Actually, I'm short on plastic housing for they are getting hard to find. I imagine the watkins tapered shape works great in a plastic housing.

[Biff]

I have not really tried that mix on the board yet. I've had a pretty fair collection of Everlast steel balls, which are flatter, and have made several of those. I may dig out my Watkins balls and drop them through a plastic housing. Actually, I'm short on plastic housing for they are getting hard to find. I imagine the watkins tapered shape works great in a plastic housing.

I hope to find out for myself. I'm waiting over 2 weeks now for fitness-equipment to fill my order for 3 replacement steel balls and the longer S-hook. Called twice and was told the order is "being processed."

A few months ago when I ordered the replacements with the shorter hooks, they told me the shorter S-hooks were on back order. After waiting several months for their supply to get replenished, I told them just send the replacements with the longer hooks. Still waiting. http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/toetap.gif

Never had a problem with them until recently. Not sure what's up with them lately.

[riqal]

I hope to find out for myself. I'm waiting over 2 weeks now for fitness-equipment to fill my order for 3 replacement steel balls and the longer S-hook. Called twice and was told the order is "being processed."

A few months ago when I ordered the replacements with the shorter hooks, they told me the shorter S-hooks were on back order. After waiting several months for their supply to get replenished, I told them just send the replacements with the longer hooks. Still waiting. http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/toetap.gif

Never had a problem with them until recently. Not sure what's up with them lately.

sounds like they need to get their heads out of thier rear ends

[Speedbag]

I hope to find out for myself. I'm waiting over 2 weeks now for fitness-equipment to fill my order for 3 replacement steel balls and the longer S-hook. Called twice and was told the order is "being processed."

A few months ago when I ordered the replacements with the shorter hooks, they told me the shorter S-hooks were on back order. After waiting several months for their supply to get replenished, I told them just send the replacements with the longer hooks. Still waiting. http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/toetap.gif

Never had a problem with them until recently. Not sure what's up with them lately.

My understanding is they make their own equipment. That is why each one looks "worked on" when you get it.

[Griffin]

They're definitely heating and bending the eye hooks, Alan. But I kinda doubt they're casting the bases... but I could be wrong, of course. How different are they from the old metal Everlast bases?

I've also had a hell of a time getting friendly customer service from them. Like many in the forum experienced, they were curt with me and have been less than honest (I'll go ahead and say it -- I've got a lot of years reading people) when dealing with the shorter hooks perpetually "on backorder"... I'm not really expecting to get mine...

BUT... I love the combo of the Watkins ball with the plastic Everlast base, so on the whole I'm happy. Starting to get the nuances of the new swivel, and I no longer miss the U-hook that I began with. Almost time to post a new video to get some feedback....

[operator3]

I ordered my ball from there also. They seemed pretty cool to me.... They said I should have it by Wednesday(4days). We'll see. I'm so excited to get my Watkins and my plastic Everlast base! The Ibox has been hung for a few months now and Im DIEING to get some nasty bows going!

[Biff]

Well, I called again this afternoon, said that I was checking on an order. I was asked for my name, and as soon as I gave it, the guy said, "Oh yea, you ordered those replacement metal balls. Let me check..........The ordering department has 600 orders to fill, we'll get yours out late today."

Last week when I called there were a thouisand orders waiting to go out. At this rate, I should have my order by the end of the month.

I'm really at a loss. I can't figure them out. I generally take people at their word, and I'm a pretty patient person, but this is getting ridiculous. If they weren't the only game in town, I'd have told them to pound sand by now.

Well, let's see where this goes. And the beat goes on......

[operator3]

Anyone know a machineist? I'm sure we could have a bunch made. We could even make them with aluminum so they would be super light and smooth finish.

[Speedbag]

Anyone know a machineist? I'm sure we could have a bunch made. We could even make them with aluminum so they would be super light and smooth finish.

I'm not sure that would be a good deal, for the plastic ballhook is "super light" and most think it "floats" in the rebound. I definitely reacts differently than a metal ballhook. I'm not sure a lightweight swivel adds anything to it's overall action once it's bolted to the board. Just like "super light" bags hardly move as fast as a bit heavier bag, for they seem to "float" off the fist.

but I'd love to find a source for reliable metal ballhooks. i had great faith in the Watkins swivel, but their customer service, and swivel availability are really dissing the speed bag community. And it's not like that product will have any other viable outlet.

[operator3]

I should be able to make something happen. Once I get my watkins, Ill do a little reverse engineering.:cool:

[Griffin]

Alan,

Has anyone ever tried putting a bar or some other device on the inside of the swivel base to eliminate the "float"?

Seems to be do-able, IMHO... just wondering if you had tried it.

[paranday]

Alan,

Has anyone ever tried putting a bar or some other device on the inside of the swivel base to eliminate the "float"?

Seems to be do-able, IMHO... just wondering if you had tried it.

I've wondered the same thing. The ball maybe should have a limit on top. I still don't know why it floats, maybe from the shank of the hook hitting the side the base?

[Griffin]

Well, the float is partially a GOOD thing, because it tells me I've mis-hit...

So from a practice and self-improvement standpoint, I like it.

But if I were designing the ultimate swivel, I'd eliminate the float in the interest of higher performance.

One simple solution would be a round piece of hard plastic, diameter equal to the hole in the back of the swivel base, at just the right thickness to keep the ball from traveling upwards...

Could maybe even have a concavity machined into it, equal to the diameter of the ball.... just a thought...

[Dutchman]

It is very possible to make a precision ball and socket swivel. It will need to be made out of a higher quality steel and require much more precise machining. It will also be very pricey, unfortunately.

[Biff]

[Fingers-crossed ]UPDATE - Just on-line and checked my credit card statement. Transaction from Fitness-Equipment shows charge for my replacement metals balls/hooks. I haven't received an email confirmation yet, but I hope to see the order soon. [/Fingers-crossed]

Film at 11:00.

[Speedbag]

i should be able to make something happen. Once i get my watkins, ill do a little reverse engineering.:cool:

Good doggie!

[operator3]

I just got home and saw A USPS box at my door. Its my new Watkins swivel!! I immediately pulled it apart and looked at it. We could definitely get one of these mass produced. Im wondering if it would be better to go with a newer material that would have a SUPER long life. It might cost more initially, but you would probably only need to buy 1. We could use the same materials that they make hip replacements with. That would guarantee a really long life. Any other suggestions are welcome.Even if we made these out of steel, They would be precision machined and last FOREVER. They would cost a little more than the Watkins, but they would be worth it. I attached my hybrid hook to my Watkins ball. This kinda gives me the benefits of the loop hook and the ball hook. It looks like it might actually work out pretty well. Cant wait to get it crankin.
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp199/Eskougor/hookw002.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp199/Eskougor/hookw001.jpg

[Biff]

[Fingers-crossed ]UPDATE - Just on-line and checked my credit card statement. Transaction from Fitness-Equipment shows charge for my replacement metals balls/hooks. I haven't received an email confirmation yet, but I hope to see the order soon. [/Fingers-crossed]

Film at 11:00.

[VENT ON]

Well I gave them a call today, and asked about my order. I told them my credit card was billed (on the 10th), I didn't receive an email, nor did I get the replacements. The guy tells me, "We're out of everything. I'll tell accounting to credit your card."

It's been one excuse after another for the last 3 months. As I stated earlier in this thread, if they weren't the only game in time, I'd look elsewhere.

Which leads me to my questions:

1) Has anyone received ANY watkins metal swivels and/or replacement parts in the last 3 months? And if so, when did you order and when did they arrive?

2) Can anyone on the forum, machine just the ball and set screw? I rather pay someone else at this point. I can use hooks from Everalst plastic swivels, make the hybrid "guts" and install inside the Everlast plastic housing.

3) Anyone else experiencing long waits and/or availablity excuses from them?

It's like WTF with this company. Never had an issue before this year. I hate to http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/beathorse.gif.
But I'm getting pretty http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/mad.gif, and tired of http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/felixpacing.gif

[VENT OFF]

[Snoof]

Wow, that's lousy Biff. I ordered my swivel & extra ball/short hook on 3/1 and got it this past Saturday. I did send follow up emails asking for status updates, but never got any reply. My card was charged the same day yours was, very odd that you never received anything.

If you need a replacement ball ASAP shoot me a msg, and I'll put my extra ball/long hook in the mail for ya.

[Biff]

Wow, that's lousy Biff. I ordered my swivel & extra ball/short hook on 3/1 and got it this past Saturday. I did send follow up emails asking for status updates, but never got any reply. My card was charged the same day yours was, very odd that you never received anything.

If you need a replacement ball ASAP shoot me a msg, and I'll put my extra ball/long hook in the mail for ya.

I have to wonder now - what was the company's name that you ordered from? I orderedf rom Fitness-Equipment out of NC, their number is 1-800-235-8341. Is this the same company?

Thanks for the offer, Snoof, but there is no hurry (obviously lol). I just want to put together a couple of hybrids for the local YMCA.

[Snoof]

Yep, same place Biff. Definitely a company with multiple issues, unfortunately. If you change your mind just let me know.

[Biff]

Well, called again. This time I talked to the "other" guy. He said they were redesigning the metal ball/hook and are out of stock on the swivels, and replacement balls/hooks. They are awaiting a shipment of balls from overseas and then need to "work" on them. He said they were looking at 90 days for them to be ready to ship.

I got my card credited, and still have no idea how other people have rec'd this stuff and I haven't, even though I've been trying since January.

I explained to him that there is a growing number of baggers who are looking for the metal ball/hooks. I don't think he was too impressed, since he told me his company has world-wide sales of over 70,000 orders a day.

C'est la vie!

[operator3]

That's too bad. Looks like I'm gonna have to take matters into my own hands. I'll see if I can find a machinist in my area. I'll let you guys know what I find out. It shouldn't be that hard to do. As long as I can get people to buy a few, I should be able to get a bunch made to keep costs down. But they will be made from the best possible materials. No made in china pot metal crap.

[biguglybear]

Sorry about your trouble, Biff, I ordered mine from the same place as you about a month ago and got it only in a few days. Sucks for you though.

[Eighty-Eight]

For what it's worth, I'm still waiting for the shorter ball hook swivel from Fitness Equipment. My original order with Fitness Equipment was in October of '09. About a month later (after several phone calls to them), I received the ball hook swivel in the mail, but did not receive the ball hook swivel with the shorter hook. After several more calls to them, the guy finally said that the shorter hook models are on back order. I asked him if he knew what the new turn-around time would be. He said probably not till the beginning of 2010. I called at the end of January '10 and was told they wouldn't be available until March. Called again in early March and was told that they have a list of all the customers waiting for the shorter hook. They will send them out when they become available.

[Biff]

That's too bad. Looks like I'm gonna have to take matters into my own hands. I'll see if I can find a machinist in my area. I'll let you guys know what I find out. It shouldn't be that hard to do. As long as I can get people to buy a few, I should be able to get a bunch made to keep costs down. But they will be made from the best possible materials. No made in china pot metal crap.

Hey O3, if you find someone who can machine them, put me down for 4. I only need the ball and set screw, I have the eye/S-hooks from 4 other Everlast plastic swivels I purchased some time ago.

Let us know how you make out. And thanks for looking into it for us. http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/thumbsup.gif

Sorry about your trouble, Biff, I ordered mine from the same place as you about a month ago and got it only in a few days. Sucks for you though.

Thanks for the concern BUB, looks like I'm a bridesmaid again.

For what it's worth, I'm still waiting for the shorter ball hook swivel from Fitness Equipment. My original order with Fitness Equipment was in October of '09. About a month later (after several phone calls to them), I received the ball hook swivel in the mail, but did not receive the ball hook swivel with the shorter hook. After several more calls to them, the guy finally said that the shorter hook models are on back order. I asked him if he knew what the new turn-around time would be. He said probably not till the beginning of 2010. I called at the end of January '10 and was told they wouldn't be available until March. Called again in early March and was told that they have a list of all the customers waiting for the shorter hook. They will send them out when they become available.

Seems I've heard that story somewhere before 88, lol. Not much we can do, since we're at their mercy.

[Griffin]

That's too bad. Looks like I'm gonna have to take matters into my own hands. I'll see if I can find a machinist in my area. I'll let you guys know what I find out. It shouldn't be that hard to do. As long as I can get people to buy a few, I should be able to get a bunch made to keep costs down. But they will be made from the best possible materials. No made in china pot metal crap.

Operator, you can count me in for sure... I've been thinking about a better made swivel as well... keep us posted!

[operator3]

Not a problem. Helping a worthy community like this one is what it's all about. I've got 2 machine shops near me that are located on the same street. I'm at work all day today and tomorrow. Buti will go by there asap to get the logistics nailed down. It shouldnt be hard to get a good deal with two shops bidding on the work. As for the set screw, I think it would be a better idea to just have the ball made and tap some threads into it. That way, you can go to home depot and just buy the correct sized screw. Our main issue is the actual out sourcing of the ball itself. You can probably even find better hook/linkage hardware if you do it yourself. There's no reason any of us should be waiting for months for things we can make/find ourselves. Necessity is the mother of invention. Or in this case, REinvention. Stay tuned....

[fingers]

Not a problem. Helping a worthy community like this one is what it's all about. I've got 2 machine shops near me that are located on the same street. I'm at work all day today and tomorrow. Buti will go by there asap to get the logistics nailed down. It shouldnt be hard to get a good deal with two shops bidding on the work. As for the set screw, I think it would be a better idea to just have the ball made and tap some threads into it. That way, you can go to home depot and just buy the correct sized screw. Our main issue is the actual out sourcing of the ball itself. You can probably even find better hook/linkage hardware if you do it yourself. There's no reason any of us should be waiting for months for things we can make/find ourselves. Necessity is the mother of invention. Or in this case, REinvention. Stay tuned....I am sure the UK contingent would be interested too! we cant get any quality swivels here well maybe with the exception of the GOLDEN SWVEL!!:D

[Clubber Lang]

Yes, you know it !!

My 25 carat solid Gold swivel is accepted by all earthlings as being the best Swivel in the universe.

Egyptologists and Aztecologists have only today managed to de-code the strange languages used by these races which were carved in stone millions of years of ago. The hieroglyphs on the Pyramid of Khufu were decoded by my friend: Dr.Daniel Jackson.

They speak of a very bright Golden light descending from the sky and people called this mysterious object 'RA', God of the Sun.

They also found a large stone ring near the Golden Swivel.

Jackson translates the hieroglyphs on the stone ring's coverstones, which read: "A million years into the sky is Ra, Sun God. Sealed and buried for all time, his Stargate." Formerly retired Air Force Colonel Jack O'Neil arrives to take command of the project and declares all information regarding it classified (unclassified today).

Jackson notices that the symbols are star constellations that are coordinates for a location within space, the sequence is entered into the stargate, creating a wormhole to a location in another galaxy. After O'Neil leads a team through the stargate, they find themselves inside a pyramid in the middle of vast sand dunes. Jackson reveals they cannot dial home because the Stargate coordinates to go back to Earth are missing. Some team members stay at the pyramid while Jackson, O'Neil, and others go out and discover a mining village inhabited by humans who assume them to be gods sent by Ra

The Golden Swivel is not of this world.

The ancient and highly developed civilisations of past were all created by worship to the Golden Swivel. These civilisations all fell because they dis-obeyed the Golden Swivel and started to worship false swivels such as the Plastic Swivel.

That is the reason why these civilisations all collapsed and were lost in history. It was around this time that Thulsa Doom got hold of the Golden Swivel and hoped to use its special powers for badness and improper Speed Bag techniques.

The history of the Golden Swivel is both rich and deep.

If anyone is interested I can go in to more detail about the Anti-Swivel that also arrived on this planet we call earth and the conflict that happened. Earth: Final Conflict.

[operator3]

So the issue of size(of the ball)has been raised. Since the hook makes contact with the rim of the plastic base, the general consensus is that the diameter of the ball needs to be bigger in order for us to widen the opening a little. Allowing us to gain more clearance. I've also been thinking of a plastic insert for the inside of the everlast that would add a top to the internals of the everlast. Kinda like ball/socket joint, eliminating float completely.

[paranday]

So the issue of size(of the ball)has been raised. Since the hook makes contact with the rim of the plastic base, the general consensus is that the diameter of the ball needs to be bigger in order for us to widen the opening a little. Allowing us to gain more clearance. I've also been thinking of a plastic insert for the inside of the everlast that would add a top to the internals of the everlast. Kinda like ball/socket joint, eliminating float completely.

How did your hybrid hook work with the Watkins ball? Wondering if the joint where the eyehook connects to the s-hook is even necessary. It's a point of wear, does it serve a useful function?

[jimcaher]

I combined the Wakins ball with the threaded hook from the plastic model along with the plastic base. The threaded stem is a bit too small for the set screw in the Watkins ball to hold it secure. The fix that worked was to put JB Weld on the threaded stem (not the set screw) allow it set for several hours then tighten the set screw. I put grease on the set screw before applying the JB so that the JB would not fix the set screw in place in the ball. I let it set overnight and it seems to be holding just fine. I also put a thin layer of grease on the ball before doing anything else in case I got any JB on it.

In my view plastic base + metal ball is the perfect solution.

I find it curious that swivel makers (i.e. Everlast) have turned a deaf ear to the needs of Schreoder/Kahn style baggers as opposed to boxing style slammers. They persist in developing hinge type swivels while discontinuing the ball hook.

Jim Caher

[paranday]

...I find it curious that swivel makers (i.e. Everlast) have turned a deaf ear to the needs of Schreoder/Kahn style baggers as opposed to boxing style slammers. They persist in developing hinge type swivels while discontinuing the ball hook.

Jim Caher

I find it curious that some companies sell equipment not ideally constructed for bagging. I used to believe that a speed bag gathers no dust. It's too addictive. But you will find plenty gathering dust. How many people have given up because of poorly designed equipment?

[operator3]

How did your hybrid hook work with the Watkins ball? Wondering if the joint where the eyehook connects to the s-hook is even necessary. It's a point of wear, does it serve a useful function?

I haven't gotten it up and running yet. Should be together this week. As far as the need for extra linkage goes, I don't think it's necessary. If you can find or make one piece of metal to stick out of the ball, you should be ok. As long as you don't limit the travel of the hardware by making contact with the swivel housing.

[Griffin]

Exactly. One hook should do it if it's not making contact with the housing. That would make it even smoother... nice!

[operator3]

Yeah, I'm excited to get a nice swivel out there. It might take a little time to get it all worked out, but in the end we'll have the perfect swivel (no offense Clubber).

[TJ_MaTee]

Hi Biff, the only issue I had with this outfit is when I ordered my swivel, I also paid for the "Small Hook". When I recieved the swivel, it came with another "Long Hook" (like the one that comes with it). I called and talked to a guy who told me, "No problem, we'll send one right out to you". I asked if he wanted the "wrong" hook that they sent me, and he replied, "That's allright, you can just keep it". Well, needless to say I haven't recieved "SQUAT" from them. That was back in January. They must be a smaller outfit, their inventory seems to be small, customer service is practically non-existent. I haven't seen this swivel sold elswhere, how can these BOZO's have the market cornered on the ever popular "Watkins all Metal Swivel"? There's got to be another place to get them. I wonder if Alan might know?
We should try and buy them "DIRECT" from the manufacturer. With a group the size of the forum, we could be placing some huge orders. I know I'd like to buy 2 or 3 more myself.

[operator3]

And that's why I'm going to make it happen. There's no reason that we can't make our own swivel. Made by baggers for baggers. Being displeased with all of the BS from retailers is what motivates me to have an awesome product that WE control. I'm gonna do my best to create the perfect swivel. As long as I can get everyone on board, we should be able to make the best swivel possible readily available to the ones that need and deserve it the most. It really shouldn't be too hard. And if I can, I'll make a mold of the everlast plastic base. That way if they really do discontinue it, we can bring it back from the dead.

[TJ_MaTee]

I just got home and saw A USPS box at my door. Its my new Watkins swivel!! I immediately pulled it apart and looked at it. We could definitely get one of these mass produced. Im wondering if it would be better to go with a newer material that would have a SUPER long life. It might cost more initially, but you would probably only need to buy 1. We could use the same materials that they make hip replacements with. That would guarantee a really long life. Any other suggestions are welcome.Even if we made these out of steel, They would be precision machined and last FOREVER. They would cost a little more than the Watkins, but they would be worth it. I attached my hybrid hook to my Watkins ball. This kinda gives me the benefits of the loop hook and the ball hook. It looks like it might actually work out pretty well. Cant wait to get it crankin.
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp199/Eskougor/hookw002.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp199/Eskougor/hookw001.jpgHey Operator, that's a really nice design you've got, and your right about having a swivel disigned for baggers "by" baggers. On your design, the piece coming from the ball that's welded to the shackle (where the bag attaches) it's one solid piece. On the Watkins swivel, the point where the "hook"(That the bag attatches) loops around the metal loop that's attached to the "ball". At that "point", you've got an extra point for movement. This point on the Watkins swivel would seem to give a "freer", movement when hitting the bag from any angle. It's similar in comparison to the "U" bolt swivels like ScissorHands uses. I know my opinion
is "splitting hairs", but when side punching, any slight resistance when the swivel is in the wrong position can throw off your rebound.
I know that it's personal preference too.
Is the metal you were talking about a type of Titanium? If so, it would probably be lighter in weight. Anyway, just some food for thought.
Thanks my man.

[operator3]

It's not spliting hairs at all. It's a perfectly valid point. However, I believe since the ball is round, it will give us a *360 rotation without any binding. After all, most people just tape up their linkage anyway right? If that's the case, might as well get rid of extra baggage all together. As for materials, for now I plan on stainless steel. Titanium would be super light, but would be VERY expensive.

[TJ_MaTee]

It's not spliting hairs at all. It's a perfectly valid point. However, I believe since the ball is round, it will give us a *360 rotation without any binding. After all, most people just tape up their linkage anyway right? If that's the case, might as well get rid of extra baggage all together. As for materials, for now I plan on stainless steel. Titanium would be super light, but would be VERY expensive.

Good point OP, keep me posted on what developes. I picked up a couple of everlast plastic ball and hook setups last week to hold me over. I'd like to rig up a couple more platforms this summer and will be needing some new swivels.
What would you be talking in terms of $$ per swivel. Looks like a great idea.
Be interesting to bag with one.
What's your experience been like so far (have you hit yours yet)?

[operator3]

I haven't had mine up yet, but I should very soon. As far as price, nothing solid yet. It will all depend on the numbers I can get produced. If I have to pay more for a better product, I'm all about it. Steel should last a really long time. This week we'll know alot more....

[Biff]

Well, since my last post of 3/17, Fitness-Equipment has NOT credited my card, even though they said they would take care of it on the 17th. I called today and explained the situation, again. He tells me that my card is scheduled to get credited TOMORROW!!! And to expect to see the credit on-line in a "few days" after that. I held my tongue.

I'll wait 7 more days to see the outcome. If it's not credited by 4/3, then I'll let loose.

It's not a great deal of money; it's just under $30.00. But now it's the principle of the matter. These guys jerked me around for over 3 months, and I've been more than patient.

Once I get my card credited, I will NEVER deal with them again. It's too bad because I've always had good luck with them until recently. But I've had it.

All I ask is to be honest and up-front with the customer. If I call in and order something, TELL me it's not in stock. Don't take the order and let me hope it gets placed. And certainly don't charge my CC, knowing full well the item is back-ordered. I've lost all faith in this company. I don't care how many world-wide orders per day they receive. They'll never get my business again.

Look for another post by 4/3. I hope the credit issue is resolved by then.

And the beat goes on....

O3, keep me updated on your progress. Looks like you may be the supplier for the forum.

[biguglybear]

Well, since my last post of 3/17, Fitness-Equipment has NOT credited my card, even though they said they would take care of it on the 17th. I called today and explained the situation, again. He tells me that my card is scheduled to get credited TOMORROW!!! And to expect to see the credit on-line in a "few days" after that. I held my tongue.
Garbage. I guess I got lucky. I'll think twice about ordering from them again. Thanks for the heads up, Biff.

[gvee127]

Well, since my last post of 3/17, Fitness-Equipment has NOT credited my card, even though they said they would take care of it on the 17th. I called today and explained the situation, again. He tells me that my card is scheduled to get credited TOMORROW!!! And to expect to see the credit on-line in a "few days" after that. I held my tongue.

I'll wait 7 more days to see the outcome. If it's not credited by 4/3, then I'll let loose.

It's not a great deal of money; it's just under $30.00. But now it's the principle of the matter. These guys jerked me around for over 3 months, and I've been more than patient.

Once I get my card credited, I will NEVER deal with them again. It's too bad because I've always had good luck with them until recently. But I've had it.

All I ask is to be honest and up-front with the customer. If I call in and order something, TELL me it's not in stock. Don't take the order and let me hope it gets placed. And certainly don't charge my CC, knowing full well the item is back-ordered. I've lost all faith in this company. I don't care how many world-wide orders per day they receive. They'll never get my business again.

Look for another post by 4/3. I hope the credit issue is resolved by then.

And the beat goes on....

O3, keep me updated on your progress. Looks like you may be the supplier for the forum.

Hey Biff, that's ridiculous how you've been treated. I'm not planning on ever doing business with them either after my bad experience. If I were you though, I wouldn't waste my time calling them anymore. Call your credit card company and dispute the charge and explain you've been wrongly charged and have them fight it.

Hopefully Operator3's project will work out.

[operator3]

Yes sir, I'm on my way to the machinist now. I just started a new job and my schedule has prevented me from getting to this. If it makes you feel any better, I haven't put my new watkins up yet because I want to get measurements first. So I've been postponing my own need to bag to get thus done. I'll know more by this evening.

[operator3]

Had some car issues today on the way to the machine shop. Looks like I blew a CV joint. Frustrating as hell...

[biguglybear]

Had some car issues today on the way to the machine shop. Looks like I blew a CV joint. Frustrating as hell...
Sounds like you got my kind of luck, Op.

[Tim]

Had some car issues today on the way to the machine shop. Looks like I blew a CV joint. Frustrating as hell...

That's unfortunate, hope it all works out.

[operator3]

Yeah, it's worse than I thought. Looks like my differential is failing. It's making an awfull noise. Turns out, my neigbor was a machinist for firearms. I'm gonna see what he thinks about the ball. And I should be able to get to the machine shops tomorrow for estimates.

[Biff]

Yeah, it's worse than I thought. Looks like my differential is failing. It's making an awfull noise. Turns out, my neigbor was a machinist for firearms. I'm gonna see what he thinks about the ball. And I should be able to get to the machine shops tomorrow for estimates.

O3, sorry to hear about your misfortune. Take care of your problems first, and then find out about the machinist. Another few days is no big deal at this point. Good luck with everything and keep us posted.

[operator3]

Thanks, but I'm dieing to get my bag going! I will deff get things done this week.

[Biff]

LAST post about this company. PROMISE.

My CC is still not credited. I've had my last conversation with these jokers a few minutes ago. After demanding that my CC get credited, he said, "It will take a few days to process." I lost it. I flipped out on him. Both barrels.

I first tried to contact them via their "Contact Us" link (hoping that may help). That link doesn't even work. Here's the message I got back: Error returned from SMTP server (3: 4.1.0 Dropping connection due to an error on this server. The guy tried to tell me that I received the message because I'm on a blacklist. I've been in IT for years, and told him the problem is on his end, not mine.

I now have my CC company involved, so I hope all gets straightened out. I have NEVER bad-mouthed a company before, especially on a public forum. But, I guess there's always a first time.

Good luck if anyone deals with this half-@$$ed place. Caveat Emptor

This BS has been going on since the beginning of the year.


2-27-2010 I hope to find out for myself. I'm waiting over 2 weeks now for fitness-equipment to fill my order for 3 replacement steel balls and the longer S-hook. Called twice and was told the order is "being processed."

A few months ago when I ordered the replacements with the shorter hooks, they told me the shorter S-hooks were on back order. After waiting several months for their supply to get replenished, I told them just send the replacements with the longer hooks. Still waiting. http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/toetap.gif

Never had a problem with them until recently. Not sure what's up with them lately.

3-8-2010 Well, I called again this afternoon, said that I was checking on an order. I was asked for my name, and as soon as I gave it, the guy said, "Oh yea, you ordered those replacement metal balls. Let me check..........The ordering department has 600 orders to fill, we'll get yours out late today."

Last week when I called there were a thouisand orders waiting to go out. At this rate, I should have my order by the end of the month.

I'm really at a loss. I can't figure them out. I generally take people at their word, and I'm a pretty patient person, but this is getting ridiculous. If they weren't the only game in town, I'd have told them to pound sand by now.

Well, let's see where this goes. And the beat goes on......

3-11-2010 [Fingers-crossed ]UPDATE - Just on-line and checked my credit card statement. Transaction from Fitness-Equipment shows charge for my replacement metals balls/hooks. I haven't received an email confirmation yet, but I hope to see the order soon. [/Fingers-crossed]

Film at 11:00.

3-17-2010 [VENT ON]

Well I gave them a call today, and asked about my order. I told them my credit card was billed (on the 10th), I didn't receive an email, nor did I get the replacements. The guy tells me, "We're out of everything. I'll tell accounting to credit your card."

It's been one excuse after another for the last 3 months. As I stated earlier in this thread, if they weren't the only game in time, I'd look elsewhere.

Which leads me to my questions:

1) Has anyone received ANY watkins metal swivels and/or replacement parts in the last 3 months? And if so, when did you order and when did they arrive?

2) Can anyone on the forum, machine just the ball and set screw? I rather pay someone else at this point. I can use hooks from Everalst plastic swivels, make the hybrid "guts" and install inside the Everlast plastic housing.

3) Anyone else experiencing long waits and/or availablity excuses from them?

It's like WTF with this company. Never had an issue before this year. I hate to http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/beathorse.gif.
But I'm getting pretty http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/mad.gif, and tired of http://www.c3vr.com/member_uploads/1_100/16/felixpacing.gif

[VENT OFF]

3-17-2010 I have to wonder now - what was the company's name that you ordered from? I orderedf rom Fitness-Equipment out of NC, their number is 1-800-235-8341. Is this the same company?

Thanks for the offer, Snoof, but there is no hurry (obviously lol). I just want to put together a couple of hybrids for the local YMCA.

3-17-2010 Well, called again. This time I talked to the "other" guy. He said they were redesigning the metal ball/hook and are out of stock on the swivels, and replacement balls/hooks. They are awaiting a shipment of balls from overseas and then need to "work" on them. He said they were looking at 90 days for them to be ready to ship.

I got my card credited, and still have no idea how other people have rec'd this stuff and I haven't, even though I've been trying since January.

I explained to him that there is a growing number of baggers who are looking for the metal ball/hooks. I don't think he was too impressed, since he told me his company has world-wide sales of over 70,000 orders a day.

C'est la vie!

3-25-2010 Well, since my last post of 3/17, Fitness-Equipment has NOT credited my card, even though they said they would take care of it on the 17th. I called today and explained the situation, again. He tells me that my card is scheduled to get credited TOMORROW!!! And to expect to see the credit on-line in a "few days" after that. I held my tongue.

I'll wait 7 more days to see the outcome. If it's not credited by 4/3, then I'll let loose.

It's not a great deal of money; it's just under $30.00. But now it's the principle of the matter. These guys jerked me around for over 3 months, and I've been more than patient.

Once I get my card credited, I will NEVER deal with them again. It's too bad because I've always had good luck with them until recently. But I've had it.

All I ask is to be honest and up-front with the customer. If I call in and order something, TELL me it's not in stock. Don't take the order and let me hope it gets placed. And certainly don't charge my CC, knowing full well the item is back-ordered. I've lost all faith in this company. I don't care how many world-wide orders per day they receive. They'll never get my business again.

Look for another post by 4/3. I hope the credit issue is resolved by then.

And the beat goes on....

O3, keep me updated on your progress. Looks like you may be the supplier for the forum.

[TJ_MaTee]

Hi Biff, the only issue I had with this outfit is when I ordered my swivel, I also paid for the "Small Hook". When I recieved the swivel, it came with another "Long Hook" (like the one that comes with it). I called and talked to a guy who told me, "No problem, we'll send one right out to you". I asked if he wanted the "wrong" hook that they sent me, and he replied, "That's allright, you can just keep it". Well, needless to say I haven't recieved "SQUAT" from them. That was back in January. They must be a smaller outfit, their inventory seems to be small, customer service is practically non-existent. I haven't seen this swivel sold elswhere, how can these BOZO's have the market cornered on the ever popular "Watkins all Metal Swivel"? There's got to be another place to get them. I wonder if Alan might know?
We should try and buy them "DIRECT" from the manufacturer. With a group the size of the forum, we could be placing some huge orders. I know I'd like to buy 2 or 3 more myself.

Hey Biff, this was my story, I guess I should thank my lucky stars the I "DID"
recieve my swivel. I did pay an extra 6-7$ for the extra ball and short hook (which was one of the main purposes of getting the swivel-short hook) and they sent me and xtra "long" hook.
Anyway, just chalk it up as a bad experience where they've got your hands tied.

[Biff]

Hey Biff, this was my story, I guess I should thank my lucky stars the I "DID"
recieve my swivel. I did pay an extra 6-7$ for the extra ball and short hook (which was one of the main purposes of getting the swivel-short hook) and they sent me and xtra "long" hook.
Anyway, just chalk it up as a bad experience where they've got your hands tied.


TJ - I'm glad to hear you did get the swivel and replacement ball, even though it didn't come with the short hook. I hope others have good luck as well. However, I will no longer be a customer of theirs.