speed bag basics

[tryme]

I'm not very good at it I can't go fast. i count 1,2,3 and (hitting on the 1 then counting 2, 3 then hitting 1 again then counting 2,3 etc etc, is that makes sense) why can't I go faster? When I try to go fast I end up hitting harder.

[Mrs Mitts]

Hi, there's plenty of people on this forum who would want to help you get going on the speedbag - maybe you need to give us a bit more detail on why you're getting frustrated?
If you think you're getting a good 1,2,3 1,2,3 rhythm going but the bag somehow isn't keeping up with you, maybe you have an equipment problem?

Maybe if your arm movements are a bit too big with each strike, it could be slowing you down?

Best of all, if you could put up a little video I'm sure you'll get lots of helpful feedback. We're all here to learn! :D:D

[spinsmashpop]

tryme... hello... welcome...
Go super slow..... try to do that 10 times in a row with your right hand... then try it 10 times in a row with your left.....
but.... dont' go faster... dont' hit harder... find the nice little sweet spot that "pops" the bag straight and keeps it centered.....
,....try to hit it with the outside of your fist, kind of like a stabbing motion in a bit of a downward angle....
Like anything, it does take time... the first couple times I tried at a gym many years ago, I thought I'd get it in minutes.... I was wrong... I'm a drummer so I figured that would make it easy.... well it made it easier to understand , but like anyone, I had to start out slow....
A little discipline does everyone some good.... prove to yourself you can hit 10 times each hand without mis-hitting and you will be proud!
The speed will come later. The power should be avoided in the beginning and get the motion, feel and form together first.
To quote Mr. Ringo Starr.....
"It dont' come easy, ya know it don't come easy!"
BAG ON!!!!

[tryme]

ok thanks guys I will try do a lil vid later and show you where i'm at. Thanks.

[Speedbag]

I'm not very good at it I can't go fast. i count 1,2,3 and (hitting on the 1 then counting 2, 3 then hitting 1 again then counting 2,3 etc etc, is that makes sense) why can't I go faster?

Hello Tryme,

Basically you will only hit as fast as you can control "your movements", not the bags. The bag will only reflect what you give it, like a mirror. If your punching movement, force, direction, angle of entry or contact point is off a bit, the bag will reflect that. The "Discipline of Bag" really means you have to start slow, stay slow and learn control. Think of this as a "control bag", not a speed bag. Counting the rebounds forces you to go slow, for you will then only hit as fast as you can count, and that isn't nearly as fast as the speed bag can rebound.

When I try to go fast I end up hitting harder.

Yes, and you will need to learn how to control the movements better that create that "harder" punch. As you swing harder you will learn to swing smaller so your hand returns to the hitting area at the proper time. Most people hit harder and then swing in larger movements as a result, but the bag waits on no man (or woman) and will be back in the hitting zone before you hand completes that larger swing.

Learn control. Speed will come. Everytime you see one of us hit fast, you're seeing a person who has learned to control their movements by hitting slow. We all progressed at our own pace, but the path is pretty much the same.

[Snoof]

I just started baggin' recently and am completely on board with starting slow. When I put my platform up and tried the basic rhythm the first time, I immediately thought that perhaps I was too old to start doing this.. that my reflexes just weren't up to it. Then I watched a couple of vids from Alan/Skunk on youtube, where slow control was stressed. So, I started hitting the bag 1x stopping it. Hit again. Stop. etc... and that was absolutely the key. Now it seems that every time I step up to the bag, something new clicks and I can get a new technique down much cleaner than the day before. Slow and steady wins the race. It really amazes me that today I'm worlds better than I was a few short weeks ago... all due to starting slow and staying in control.

[spinsmashpop]

Yes, in my last post I forgot to also stress the importance of keeping your elbows out, fists up and punching with small circular motions, like Speedbag posted about. Try to keep the punch rhythm steady by hearing punches and rebounds happen at the same speed.....
but don't forget....
... "a bag unpunched is a bag unloved!"
BAG ON!

[tryme]

im actually not too bad with my left hand but i find i hit to hard with my right (I am right handed) not sure if thats quite common for beginners. Ill keep at it though, thanks guys.

Also spinsmashpop why does it look like you are throwing a straight right at your bag in your pic? Is that a completely different punch all together compared to the one i'm meant to be throwing?

[ukspeedbag]

You got Front Circular Punches (F,C,P) which is what you'll be doing. The punch in question is the Front Straight Punch. (F,S,P)

Try it out. Start with your right fist and hit the bag with a straight punch, with the same fist bring it back and hit with your circular punch, swap hands and repeat.
My Daughter is here (http://www.youtube.com/user/ukspeedbag#p/u/8/FO28A-kQlkE)doing the straight punches.

[tryme]

ill give it a go lol.

[spinsmashpop]

im actually not too bad with my left hand but i find i hit to hard with my right (I am right handed) not sure if thats quite common for beginners. Ill keep at it though, thanks guys.

Also spinsmashpop why does it look like you are throwing a straight right at your bag in your pic? Is that a completely different punch all together compared to the one i'm meant to be throwing?

In the pic, I was going for power! haha.... But really, there are tons of different, but first you need to get bag control, so you start simple and then gradually improve... There are front straight punches and front circle punches, and like UK said, you can mix the two making for a real cool combo that creates great power and speed! But one thing at a time for now!

[Speedbag]

ill give it a go lol.

Here is a video clip of the Basic Rhythm (http://www.speedbagcentral.com/multimedia/videos/The_Basic_Punching_Pattern.wmv) using the Front Straight Punch (FSP) and Front Circle Punch (FCP).

UK is exactly right, hit a Front Straight Punch (FSP) and then do a Front Circle Punch (FCP) with the Same arm.

It can be written like this: R_FSP ' ' ' R_FCP ' ' ' L_FSP ' ' ' L_FCP ' ' ' ...repeat.

( ' ' ' = 3 rebounds)

[tryme]

are you meant to hit the bag when its going away from you or to you? Cuz i'm sure i'm hitting it when it's comming to me :S

[Speedbag]

are you meant to hit the bag when its going away from you or to you? Cuz i'm sure i'm hitting it when it's comming to me :S

Yes, the bag is coming toward your hand when you make contact. Only on more advanced combinations will you make contact on a bag going away from you (your hand movement). Normally if your hand is going in the same direction as the bag you will miss. But with advanced control you will learn to manipulate the bag rebounding angle and the angle of fist entry to create combinations that wouldn't "normally" be possible. The truth is, in every single rebound there is a point which the bag is straight under the swivel, and at that moment it could be hit by your fist coming from any direction. Normally you will not hit it at this point, for most bag contact on you fist will happen when the bag is angled away from your fist, wherever it is coming from.

If you learn to control your basics first, all this will fall into place in a few months.

[tryme]

I see, thanks again! How do I go fast like the likes of manny pacquiao in this video? what punching technique/combination is he using? I know I can't go that fast but thats what I am aiming to do!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLW4ZgrKShI&feature=channel

[Speedbag]

I see, thanks again! How do I go fast like the likes of manny pacquiao in this video? what punching technique/combination is he using? I know I can't go that fast but thats what I am aiming to do!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLW4ZgrKShI&feature=channel

Practice the basics slowly until your timing gets better and then you can slowly start to punch faster and faster. Works every time.

[biguglybear]

UKspeedbag, that was cute having your daughter standing on a bench working the speedbag. She's progressing right along. Quite a scrapper, that one!

[biguglybear]

Tryme, not to take away from Manny Pacquiao, surely to be put down as one of the greatest boxers of all time, but his speedbag skills are nothing compared to Alan Kahn.

[tryme]

what punching technique is he doing looks like the rcp lcp and rsp and lsp is that right?

[ukspeedbag]

UKspeedbag, that was cute having your daughter standing on a bench working the speedbag. She's progressing right along. Quite a scrapper, that one!

Haha! thanks biguglybear. Both my kids have their moments on the speed bag.:D

[tryme]

how do you do a fist roll?

[ukspeedbag]

how do you do a fist roll?
Like this.;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE3OJ0gif44

See the way Sean starts rolling his fists then moves into the bag?..........try it!

[tryme]

I see, ill deff try it tomorrow!

[tryme]

Ok I can't seem to do the fist roll at all :|

[Snoof]

Keep trying man! Last week I was getting frustrated with it, this week I'm working rolls into my "regular" basic routine. I'm still no pro but a week of steady work will result in some fine progress.

[ote888]

You got Front Circular Punches (F,C,P) which is what you'll be doing. The punch in question is the Front Straight Punch. (F,S,P)

Try it out. Start with your right fist and hit the bag with a straight punch, with the same fist bring it back and hit with your circular punch, swap hands and repeat.
My Daughter is here (http://www.youtube.com/user/ukspeedbag#p/u/8/FO28A-kQlkE)doing the straight punches.

hey dude...you got a really nice daughter there...very cute.. =)...

[ote888]

I see, thanks again! How do I go fast like the likes of manny pacquiao in this video? what punching technique/combination is he using? I know I can't go that fast but thats what I am aiming to do!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLW4ZgrKShI&feature=channel

dude.... we have the same idol.... what inspires me doing speedbag was also manny pacquiao..im a filipino!... and though you're not..im thanking you for idolizing him.... filipinos or not...through working hard...there's nothing impossible..as what he also says =) :D:D

[paranday]

dude.... we have the same idol.... what inspires me doing speedbag was also manny pacquiao..im a filipino!... and though you're not..im thanking you for idolizing him.... filipinos or not...through working hard...there's nothing impossible..as what he also says =) :D:D

Manny Pacquiao is exciting to watch. You can be proud of him.

[Speedbag]

Like this.;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE3OJ0gif44

See the way Sean starts rolling his fists then moves into the bag?..........try it!



Tryme tries it: :( no joy.

Ok I can't seem to do the fist roll at all :|

In my own personal experience I have found two ways to teach a Front Fist Roll. The first way, as in the "shawn" video is to start rolling your fists over each other, walk into a non-moving bag and keep rolling, hoping the speed, timing, fist contacts and rebounds all align. Viole! a fist roll. Probably no control, probably no understanding of what or how this works, but you "are" rolling. In this method you are trying to connect as many punches as possible, for the aim is just to keep rolling.

I have found this works for maybe 50% of the people you teach. The other 50% will need another way....

(Method 2)

The second way is to learn it gradually, starting from the first punch and going forward by adding one or two punches at a time, which greatly reduces the skill required for repetitive motion, as well the chance for control errors. Consider a "Front Double Punch" as a two punch fist roll. It really isn't, BUT the first two punches, (and last two punches) of a Fist Roll could be viewed as a double punch. When method one fails, try this:

If they cannot do a Front Double Punch (FDP) with control, have them start rollinng their fists over each other slowly, lean into the bag, hit it TWICE and stop. Then do it again, but hit it three times and stop. Three is an important step because it teaches you to stop and start on the same fist (R-L-R). Notice the first and third punch are "Right fist", (or their dominant arm). OK, now drill the three punch roll a few time.
R-L-R ' ' ' ' ' R-L-R ' ' ' ' ' R-L-R...... etc. (note 5 rebounds between the three punch rolls. reposition the arms during the five rebound to start again. Do this 3 punch roll a lot, leading with either arm. (tip: You will use the 3 punch roll A LOT in punch drumming....)

Now for most people, you can add TWO punches to keep the entry and exit on the dominant arm R-L-R-L-R. Some people do better adding ONE punch, some do better using the dominant hand as the key control factor. It just depends. But most folks learn quicker when they sense the control "in" and "out" of techniques with their dominant hand. they can work the other hand later, but to get the feel and timing, key off the dominant hand.

so, now you are doing a R-L-R-L-R Five Punch fist Roll. This is will give the sense of First Rolling, because it has a quick "machine gun" sound effect, and now you have control getting IN and OUT of the Roll. (on the dominant R hand.) Once you can do that R-L-R-L-R ' ' ' ' ' ...repeat, then try to separate the 5-punch Roll with three rebounds. But don't sweat the three rebounds in between, it doesn't really matter. You are focusing on the repetitive punching skill right now, not the combination skill of putting them together. That is a different skill.

At this point you can try to do this 3 & 5 punch roll while doing Front Circle Punching (FCP) with your dominant hand. for instance,

R_FCP ' ' ' R_FCP ' ' ' R_FCP ' ' ' 5 punch fist roll: R-L-R-L-R ' ' ' R_FCP.

Now add two more punches, for a seven punch roll: R-L-R-L-R-L-R. ( F-Roll x7)

In my own experience I have found seven punches to be THE key number where the person can then begin rolling non-stop for more and more, or endlessly, because they have the control ability of getting IN and OUT of the roll on the dominant hand. For a practice exercise, Do a 3-Punch Roll, then a 5-punch roll, then a 7-punch roll, then back to 5-punch, then 3-punch. Mix and match the rolls, control the number of contacts as YOU want, not just desperately trying to repetitively punch as in the "Shawn video". For fun, try combining the Front First Roll (F-Roll) with a Front Double Punch (FDP) combo. You should quickly feel the relationship:

R-L-R-L-R ' ' ' R-L_FDP ' ' ' L-R_FDP ' ' ' R-L-R-L-R' ' ' R-L_FDP ' ' ' L-R_FDP ' ' ' ...repeat.

(the two FDP above get your hands back in position to repeat a Right lead F-Roll) do it with 3,5,and 7 punch Rolls. Now you got it. You should be able to punch a steady basic rhythm, throw a 3,5,7 punch F-Roll and then continue in basic rhythm, or FDP with no loss of control, a consistent speed and power.

TRYME: Please try method 2 for a few days and let us know what happened.

[Snoof]

Definitely try method 2. I tried walking into the bag and it didn't work so well for me. I ended up doing pretty much what Alan suggested here and it worked much better for me.

[Bruce]

how do you do a fist roll?

Say, while we're on the subject, on fist rolls... any tips on the reverse fist roll? I seem to be struggling. Not sure where, on the fist, the bag should hitting, and it seems inevitably, the bag bounces off a thumb. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Speedbag]

Say, while we're on the subject, on fist rolls... any tips on the reverse fist roll? I seem to be struggling. Not sure where, on the fist, the bag should hitting, and it seems inevitably, the bag bounces off a thumb. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

If the bag is bouncing off your thumb in a Reverse Fist Roll (R-Roll), then you may have a poor hand position behind the bag, but it can also happen if you have your hands angled a bit wierd on contact. The optimal place to contact the fist with the bag is "on or near" the large knuckle of the Index Finger, shown in a few pictures below.

I personally believe that R-Roll is THE hardest Technique to fully learn and control. Getting comfortable with your hands behind the bag is probably the most import KEY on this technique.

In the R-Roll you really don't "Roll" your fists over each other as much as either roll or hit next to each other. Trying to roll them over each other will often find them banging together.

You can learn the R-Roll using Method 2 described early for the F-Roll. Rather than frustrate yourself trying to endlessly (or luckily) make many fist contacts punching behind the bag, Start with doing a few Reverse Single Punches (RSP) with your dominant hand, then add one more fist (with one rebound) and do a Reverse Double Punch (RDP). Try to feel the contact on the Index knuckle or near it. Ideally after the second fist hits you can continue punching RSP with your non-dominant hand. It looks like this:

R_RSP ' ' ' R_RSP ' ' ' R-L_RDP ' ' ' L_RSP ' ' ' L_RSP ....

( if you can't continue punching with the second fist of the RDP, then simply stop the bag. That is not a big deal, and not the skill you are working on. Just use your dominant hand to lead the RDP.

Now, add 1 more punch, So instead of a RDP you will do Three repetitive punches with one rebound inbetween. This will be your
"3 punch Fist Roll"). Now keep punching afterward with your dominant hand (Right in this example)

R_RSP ' ' ' R_RSP ' ' ' R-L-R ' ' ' R_RSP ' ' ' R_RSP ....

notice above you are now starting and stopping on the Right (dominant fist). I like someone to keep punching after the three punch R-Roll, since you will need to learn to get "into" and "out of" this roll with the dominant hand, and the three punch is the simplest, shortest way.

Now add 2 punches to make it a 5 Punch Roll. This keeps your dominant hand in the lead and exit positions. At some point let your non-dominate hand start leading "in" and "out" of the roll for you will need that ability to do it with either hand.
When you can do a 5 or 7 punch R-Roll, try doing it with an even number of punches. This is more difficult before you will start and stop on different hands.

When you can control a 5 punch R-Roll, Try going from a 3-punch F-Roll to a 3-punch R-Roll, one to the other passing under quickly with only two rebounds inbetween. R-L-R_F-Roll ' ' R-L-R_R-Roll ' ' R-L-R_F-Roll: and learn to come out behind the bag to either RDP or RSP.

Hope some of that helps. :)

[Bruce]

Thanks, Alan. Appreciate the info... that's more than I could hope for. Looking at the diagram, I think you were right, I had my fists angled at an awkward angle and my thumbs weren't tucked under. Getting the hang of it now- thanks again.

[Speedbag]

Thanks, Alan. Appreciate the info... that's more than I could hope for. Looking at the diagram, I think you were right, I had my fists angled at an awkward angle and my thumbs weren't tucked under. Getting the hang of it now- thanks again.

Good to hear.

Tip: Once you learn to do RDP and R-Roll as well as the FDP and F-Roll, then you can do the same combinations from the front and back of the bag. Since all these techniques use "both fists", You will have the same linking options from behind as you do from the front. (1) lead Fist (2) Second fist (3) Both.