Give this a try....

[Speedbag]

Amazing combination (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IutpV8COM0w)

(* PS: He was 85 yrs old when he sent this to me..... :eek: )

First you have to understand what he is doing. Look closely. I have never seen Anyone else do this -

and don't think I haven't tried.

[Kevdawg0324]

that cat is pretty good for his age. im impressed.

[Speedbag]

that cat is pretty good for his age. im impressed.

He actually does a few other combinations I had never seen before. It is amazing how some people will just see things in the bag that others don't. Some of his other techniques and combo mixs were interesting variations. I was able to do them pretty quickly - but the above link continues to stump the band. It is the only combination I have ever seen that I absolutely cannot replicate with any competency. For that reason, I call it the single most amazing combination I have ever seen. He also had some unique ways of using a hook punch. I'll mix up different video and post it this weekend.

....and the reason he sent me a video was to demonstrate a swivel modification he had created using a chainlink swivel. In fact, he made his own board and the hanger from the metal pole in his basement.

[Chawncy]

Very nice combo's, but look a t the height and size of the bag. It would be hard to reproduce w/o dropping the bag down to almost waist height.:p

[Speedbag]

Very nice combo's, but look a t the height and size of the bag. It would be hard to reproduce w/o dropping the bag down to almost waist height.:p

Very perceptive, Chawncy. Yes, there are two keys to this: First the size of the bag, (very large) and second, the Belly of the bag is at his chest. That allows the inward elbow movements to be easier and move in on more of a straight angle.

[BillyMack]

I was able to replicate this combo with a fair amount of success. You don't have to have that big of a bag, nor do you have to drop it to waist height.

I simply let a little air out of my bag so it wouldn't rebound so fast. Then I went throught the motions slowly until it felt right. I can't nail it 100% or with a lot of speed but a few more days practicing I'll be right up there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2CZAQeDygQ

[Chris M]

Good job Billy Mack. I went and put my big 10x12 on there and was able to do it somewhat. I'm sure with practice it could be mastered and you seem to be well on your way.

As I was doing this, it occurred to me that this is nothing but the 4 count hit that Alan teaches but you have to do it with no bounce in between cycling from side to side. The problem I had was that I am used to starting with an outward elbow and doing it more in a downward (more in a vertical plane) motion instead of side to side horizontally. I'm used to starting this hit with an outward elbow, and it appears thats what it is, but the arms are held in a horizontal plane.

I just went back and viewed both videos again, I see what I'm doing wrong. You don't hit twice on the outer elbow when changing sides, you just go straight back to a FCP (or a variation of it) after the elbow, which is followed by a double FSP and then an inside or inner elbow hit. (Now Alan's going to be disappointed and yell at me for not reading my Speedbag Bible enough to know the proper abbreviations) LOL, I'll brush up, I've been neglecting my Speedbag Bible for too long now.

Alan, I'm really confused, how is this difficult for you?

[BillyMack]

...you just go straight back to a FCP (or a variation of it) after the elbow, which is followed by a double FSP and then an inside or inner elbow hit.

ya, the hardest part is coming back with the fist after the elbow; there's only a small window to nail it and you have to change directions in the same motion. It's all about timing; come back quick after the elbow but go slow when switching hands.

let some air out of your bag and just go slow and light through the motions, get the feel then gradually bring up the speed.

[Chris M]

ya, the hardest part is coming back with the fist after the elbow; there's only a small window to nail it and you have to change directions in the same motion. It's all about timing; come back quick after the elbow but go slow when switching hands.

let some air out of your bag and just go slow and light through the motions, get the feel then gradually bring up the speed.

OTES is what I'm comparing it to, and no, I didn't cheat by looking it up, it slipped my mind and I just now remembered it.

[Speedbag]

Good job Billy Mack. I went and put my big 10x12 on there and was able to do it somewhat. I'm sure with practice it could be mastered and you seem to be well on your way.

As I was doing this, it occurred to me that this is nothing but the 4 count hit that Alan teaches but you have to do it with no bounce in between cycling from side to side. The problem I had was that I am used to starting with an outward elbow and doing it more in a downward (more in a vertical plane) motion instead of side to side horizontally. I'm used to starting this hit with an outward elbow, and it appears thats what it is, but the arms are held in a horizontal plane.

I just went back and viewed both videos again, I see what I'm doing wrong. You don't hit twice on the outer elbow when changing sides, you just go straight back to a FCP (or a variation of it) after the elbow, which is followed by a double FSP and then an inside or inner elbow hit. ..

Alan, I'm really confused, how is this difficult for you?

My analysis of the original video, in real time and slow motion, never saw an Outward Elbow. The Older gentleman always starts this combo from a Front Fist Roll, but his fists are really in Front Straight Punch (FSP) Position. I also tried getting into this from and Out-In Four Way Elbow (O-I 4way) then doing continuous alternating repetitive Inward-Triple Elbow Strikes with only one rebound inbetween. (This would be an advanced front punching combo, using one rebound instead of three.)

You can plainly see this in BillyMacks video, but he does it in more of a one arm Inward-Double Elbow ' Front Circle Punch method. [ I-DES ' FCP ] I have done that combo for years, but never changed arms to make it continuously alternating after ONE rebound with any significant speed. At least not at the speed of my posted video, or even that of BillyMack's. Why? I don't know. But I have never been very proficient with the Inward Elbows.

I have no doubt BillyMack will soon take this to speed similar to Front Fist Rolling, and mix it into many other combinations.

Score one for BillyMack.

[Chris M]

Out-In Four Way Elbow (O-I 4way)

That's the abbreviation I was looking for.

[SpeedBagSkunk]

i really dont like the hit much i can do the hit but only on a big bag! i dont see any point in continueing the hit or practicing it because of not being able to use my little bag but yall other speed baggers knock your socks off learning one hit rather than gettin good at the hits you all ready know ight yall peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chris M]

i really dont like the hit much i can do the hit but only on a big bag! i dont see any point in continueing the hit or practicing it because of not being able to use my little bag but yall other speed baggers knock your socks off learning one hit rather than gettin good at the hits you all ready know ight yall peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's a challenge to try a new hit we haven't seen before and it's interesting to see a new hit or combination that someone has come up with, that's why we're discussing it. Added to that, it's being done by a guy that's almost (but not quite) twice my age, let alone the fact that someone from my grandfather's generation took the time to record it electronically and upload it to Alan and youtube is pretty remarkable in itself. Most people in his children's generation are scared of, or at the very least, very intimidated by computer technology, to say nothing about him having an ongoing interest in physical fitness at his age. To think he took the time to contact one of the world's experts in speed bagging research and documentation to challenge him to replicate a combination he discovered is extraordinary. I have tremendous respect and admiration for this old man.

Kudos to him for his efforts and to BillyMack for being the first to provide a clip to prove that he could reproduce the combination in a very short time period.

I'll remain humble myself.

[Speedbag]

It's a challenge to try a new hit we haven't seen before and it's interesting to see a new hit or combination that someone has come up with, that's why we're discussing it. Added to that, it's being done by a guy that's almost (but not quite) twice my age,... I have tremendous respect and admiration for this old man.

Kudos to him for his efforts and to BillyMack for being the first to provide a clip to prove that he could reproduce the combination in a very short time period.

I'll remain humble myself.

Here is a more expansive video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-AmIocccAg) of some more of his combinations. Some very interesting uses of the hook punch with outward elbows.

Over the years, I have learned that everyone has their own preferences. Some prefer big bags, some small. Some like the bag high, others like it lower. Some people always seem to hit the bag really hard and fast, others hit at slower speeds. When you are around many people who hit the bag, you may also begin to notice that you can recognize the sound of certain individuals, for most have their own unique style or punching "beat". You may know who is on the bag without looking.

The older individual in this video did NOT send this footage to me as a challenge to see if I could replicate his combinations - but only to demonstrate a modification he made to the swivel. I was immediately struck by the uniqueness of his combinations, some of which I had never seen or done before. It reminds me of how much more there is to know and do on the bag. I believe there are probably many variations on techniques and hundreds of combinations possible that await to be revealed. Personally, I will rejoice in seeing and possibly learning them. If I can not personally do them, then I will still admire their originality and respect the skill it takes to do it.

I find my bags work best without the "air" of Envy and Jealousy inside them. I am just happy that I know enough to understand what someone else does, and perhaps explain it to others.

...and for the record, "Skunk", your advanced punching combination of Continously Alternating Downward-Double Elbow Strikes
[ D-DES ' D-DES ] was also a very unique combination I have never seen or done before. Great variation using two inward moving techniques - which I don't normally think of joining together. When my left shoulder allows me to give it an honest effort, it is also on my list of "want to trys.."

[saifullah21]

Gotta agree with speedbag. It's refreshing to see how others bring their own flavor. Check this guy's elbow combos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sbCsddSn_o

[Chris M]

The older individual in this video did NOT send this footage to me as a challenge to see if I could replicate his combinations - but only to demonstrate a modification he made to the swivel.

I stand corrected, you did say that in your first post.

[Speedbag]

Gotta agree with speedbag. It's refreshing to see how others bring their own flavor. Check this guy's elbow combos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sbCsddSn_o

Good Lord, that video had me cheering. :D

His Originality (Punching over - & - under the Outward Elbow), and Speed of performance was amazing. Great link, Saifullah21.

That is exactly what I meant about people bringing their own flavor and style to the bag.

In years past, I did mess around with the Outward-Single Elbow, Straight Punch combo [ OSES ' FSP ] like this guy does, (by dropping the lead fist of the Outward-Triple Elbow Strike), but would always rotate it to the other arm lead. It never really took hold as something to pursue. But this gentleman has taken it a step futher by doing it repetitively with the "Same Arm leading"

[ L-(O-SES) ' ' ' R-(FSP) ] x4-5 ' ' ' other side, repeat.

Very unusual but really cool to watch. I am reminded of the look on the face of Dr. Schroeder, (the guy who taught me) - when he first saw the Downward Elbow Strikes. He just shook his head and said "Wow. I never thought of that..."

(I know how you feel, Doc..)

[SpeedBagSkunk]

For the record i did not say anything about him not being very good on the speed bag, the man is awesome does a hole different technic then me for sure, thats y in my original post i made sure to state it was my opinion, but any hows i agree with you Alan kahn you are so right about knowing who is hitting the bag with out even seeing them just hearing how the bag moves, we all have our own style technic and preferance on the speed bag, most all of us here make totaly different sounds on the bag ill bet if we were all together in i dont know a big gym with say 50 bags set up and every body busting out combos WOW would we make some noise!!! :cool:

[Kevdawg0324]

i agree with speedbag skunk. i like that technique and combination, and it looks cool, but i dont like the idea of having to change a setup in order to do one move. its not very practical especially if your unit isnt adjustable, like mine isnt. im sure there are hundreds of unencountered techniques and combos like "speedbag" says, but this just happens to be one that i will leave for someone else to do. thats one great thing about the bag; every person's style is different.

[Teetu]

ive been gone from the forums for a while and this is by far the best post I've seen here in a while. This is some crazy stuff, and I especially like that outward elbow and front straight punch.

Seeing these new techniques reminds me of the dunk contest. For a while no one was doing new dunks and and it was thought that everything had been done- but sure enough people started putting the ball under the leg and doing 720s proving that you can keep progressing forward.

I can't wait until I get comfortable with all the basic techniques so I can start experimenting on my own.

[Speedbag]

ive been gone from the forums for a while and this is by far the best post I've seen here in a while. This is some crazy stuff, and I especially like that outward elbow and front straight punch.

Seeing these new techniques reminds me of the dunk contest. For a while no one was doing new dunks and and it was thought that everything had been done- but sure enough people started putting the ball under the leg and doing 720s proving that you can keep progressing forward.

I can't wait until I get comfortable with all the basic techniques so I can start experimenting on my own.

Hey Teetu, welcome back.

There has been originality bustin' out all over the place lately. Lot's of magic under the board these days.
Some of our "young guns" are throwing out some pretty sweet combinations. I have really been amazed at the speed of skills progression.

It's a great time to be a speedbagger :D