Frequency and length of workout

[BoxingGranny]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and relatively new to the speed bag, too, so I'm looking for advice and tips from those in the know.

I've been working out with the bag for about 3 weeks now. I've worked up to doing between 60 and 70 minutes a session (with water breaks, so I guess maybe 55 to 65 minutes actually hitting the bag), 6 days a week. My son says that's way too much, and I should take a day off between each workout. (Forgot to mention, I'm a 58 year old female with some 25 lbs. of fat to burn.) My main goal is to develop some upper body and back strength, and replace some of this fat with toned muscle. My muscles definitely get sore from the workouts, but nothing I'd call real pain - just enough to let me know I really worked them. Am I overdoing it?

Last week I tried backing away from the bag and throwing long punches from the shoulder, and now that I can keep a decent rhythm going, I'm enjoying it much more than hitting the bag in close, and I'm really feeling it in my back.

I'd appreciate your advice on what makes up a well rounded bag routine, and any tips that would help a woman old enough to remember the Friday Night Fights on the Gillette Cavalcade of Sports.

Thanks!!

[SupergeZ]

welcome to the forum boxing granny!

i think alans that guy for this one! his username is speedbag and will be able to tell you everything you need to know :D

[BillyMack]

Hi Granny-
Welcome, and Kudos for taking action at your seasoned stage in life. I'll give my 2 cents.

I wouldn't necessarily say you are overdoing it, but I think you can get a better or equal workout in less time. You do this by stepping up the intensity of your workouts. Everyone has to be careful and train safe but at your age you might have some real concerns like bone loss/osteoperosis, etc, so you are wise to take it slow and easy.

There are several ways to step up the intensity: you can punch faster, you can add resistance, or you can do hit the bag in intervals adding in other activities. The latter is my favorite combination with the speed bag.

What else can you do in besides the speed bag? Do you have a heavy bag? A pull up bar? A medicine ball? Maybe a resistance band? Even a couple minutes of step aerobics in between speed bag rounds would add some intensity. Are you fit enough for pushups?

It's really hard to get a great workout on the speed bag alone, but it can be done....good job to you so far!!

[Chris M]

What size is your bag?

Since your goal is to gain strength, I'm thinking you want to hit a larger heavier bag.

I love my Title 10x12 bag which is a great bag for longer workouts because it is slower and it's pretty heavy. It's the blue one towards the bottom of the page. http://store.titleboxing.com/titlespeedbags1.html Hey, they're on sale now too! Title bags are very good quality, as good as or better than most others out there on the market and you sure can't beat the price!

And yes, you do want to alternate days for working specific muscles in order to give them a chance to recover. I can't tell you the scientific reason for why, but it's something I've been told my entire life when I first started lifting weights until I was in the Army. I attended a Master Physical Fitness Trainer course in about 1992 and it was recommended to do varying exercises each day so as to gain maximum benefit. I'd recommend you do some light jogging or perhaps even swimming or bike riding to target different muscle groups on the days that you are not hitting the bag.

[metaldad]

Welcome Granny!! You've come to the right place!! There are some really cool knowledgeable folks here who will help you out.Sit back enjoy and as my idol Bruce Lee always said "Absorb what is useful" Good Luck:D

[BoxingGranny]

Hi Granny-
Welcome, and Kudos for taking action at your seasoned stage in life. I'll give my 2 cents.

I wouldn't necessarily say you are overdoing it, but I think you can get a better or equal workout in less time. You do this by stepping up the intensity of your workouts. Everyone has to be careful and train safe but at your age you might have some real concerns like bone loss/osteoperosis, etc, so you are wise to take it slow and easy.

There are several ways to step up the intensity: you can punch faster, you can add resistance, or you can do hit the bag in intervals adding in other activities. The latter is my favorite combination with the speed bag.

What else can you do in besides the speed bag? Do you have a heavy bag? A pull up bar? A medicine ball? Maybe a resistance band? Even a couple minutes of step aerobics in between speed bag rounds would add some intensity. Are you fit enough for pushups?

It's really hard to get a great workout on the speed bag alone, but it can be done....good job to you so far!!
Hi Billy,

Thanks for the tips! I did get a heavy bag as well, but I'm not sure about technique for working the heavy bag, and I don't want to dive in before I know what I'm doing with it. I do have a pair of Everlast 12 oz. gloves for it when I'm ready to try it out.

Know of a website with slo-mo of heavy bag work?

I also have a travel size stair stepper. I saw the video of Alan working the speed bag while riding the stationary bike. Maybe I could use the stairstepper the same way to increase the intensity?

Thanks again,
Bobbi

[Speedbag]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and relatively new to the speed bag, too, so I'm looking for advice and tips from those in the know.

I've been working out with the bag for about 3 weeks now. I've worked up to doing between 60 and 70 minutes a session (with water breaks, so I guess maybe 55 to 65 minutes actually hitting the bag), 6 days a week. My son says that's way too much, and I should take a day off between each workout. (Forgot to mention, I'm a 58 year old female with some 25 lbs. of fat to burn.) My main goal is to develop some upper body and back strength, and replace some of this fat with toned muscle. My muscles definitely get sore from the workouts, but nothing I'd call real pain - just enough to let me know I really worked them. Am I overdoing it?

Last week I tried backing away from the bag and throwing long punches from the shoulder, and now that I can keep a decent rhythm going, I'm enjoying it much more than hitting the bag in close, and I'm really feeling it in my back.

I'd appreciate your advice on what makes up a well rounded bag routine, and any tips that would help a woman old enough to remember the Friday Night Fights on the Gillette Cavalcade of Sports.

Thanks!!

Well, I'm certainly old enough to remember Friday Nights on the Gillette Cavalcade of Sports..... (http://www.classictvhits.com/show.php?id=704)

You're workout sounds very aggressive at first, but the fact that your "hitting the bag" doesn't really tell the whole story.

that's because I believe there are three general workout levels on the speed bag. First, is "learning speed", or hitting very easy, working on new skills, techniques or combinations. This usually has a lot of breakdowns, stop and starts etc. You might get some shoulder/tricep burn from this for short periods, but the low force and slow movement doesn't do much physically. You seldom go over 1/2 speed when doing this, and 50 - 60 minutes at this level is not to tough to do.

The second level is a little more aggressive than the first, for here you start using the techniques and combinations you know and start doing them faster. Hitting harder on a larger bag, or maybe faster on a smaller bag, but you can continue to do the combo's and keep punching for up to 3/4 speed for pretty long periods (1 - 2 minutes or more). Normally, I would think about 20-30 minutes at this level will make most pretty tired. Hopefully, they are doing some more than just the basic rhythm, for that would get pretty boring. Learning new tech & combo's (at stage 1) adds variety. The speed bag fanatic (guilty here....) will continue long past this point, but for the general fitness crowd or club workout, this is usually it.

The third and final level is FULL speed, which is whatever force and bag you can use to go all out, for as long as you can, (or your time interval), which usually isn't very long. This is punching just at the limit of being out of control (for someone still learning...) and to the limits of the bag and swing mechanics for the more advanced. As Chris points out, a larger bag will build strength, and go slower at full force punching - which will help a newbie trying to go fast.

I think most people gravitate between all three levels within most workouts, trying to going fast for short periods, then dropping down to lower force and speeds - without giving much thought to how long they are going at any particular level. Beginners stay at the lower end longer, and those with more skill play a bit at slow speeds, then jump to 3/4 or full more often.

For YOU, since I'm not sure what level you are most comfortable with, and I don't know what you really do in your 60-70 minutes, (just basic rhythm, or single fist linking, double fist linking, Double Punches and Fist Rolls) I would suggest trying to focus your workout a little with a plan.

First, here is a link to some focused speed bag workouts (http://www.speedbagcentral.com/ssp/focused_workouts) to target various benefits, such as speed, strength or cardio fitness. Be aware that cardio fitness really demands good ability to control the bag for extend periods of time at near full capacity punching.

Second, try to vary the muscles you effect by learning a few elbow strikes - particular the Outward and the Downward (http://www.speedbagcentral.com/ssp/hitting_the_bag#B). These will allow you to relieve the burn in the shoulder from fist punching, and rotate the shoulder through a larger range of motion to get a better upper body stretch and more muscles involved.

Third, you might try to try a few rounds at a set punching pace, forcing yourself to maintain an exact punching pace. Most new people cannot keep a constant pace. Think of a musician using a metronome. The ticking will set the constant speed, and the musician follows that as the guiding beat. The best speed bag metronome I know of is MUSIC. Get some of your favorite music, better yet pull out some of the tunes from the stone age of Rock & Roll, 1950's and 60's - and play that in the background. Tap your foot to find the beat, (usually very easy to find in 1950-60 Rock & Roll) and change your foot tap to a hand punch on the bag. Just keep a basic rhythm going with the beat of the song. Most 1950-60 music is 2-1/2 to 3 minutes long, so that will be your punching interval. A lot of music such as "pretty woman" "wake up little susie" "bye bye love" "peggy sue" "rockin' robin" "run around sue" "La Bamba", all have a very easy beat to feel and punch along to.

I guess I need to post some video's of punching to these easier tunes to show some samples. Most of my clips feature more complicated music and punching combinations, but there are some quick samples of that in this Bluegrass Clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7aOoNo7Y58&mode=related&search=). From 11secs - to 33 seconds I'm only doing basic punching from the front and back (some double punching pass throughs, but you don't need to do that..). I do it again from 1min 38 sec to 1min 45sec. (grabbing a quick rest from the faster combo's). Your punching doesn't need to be anymore complex than just punching from the front ON the beat.

If you can punch to the slower but constant oldies rock and roll, I'd say 6 or 8 songs would be plenty of workout, coupled with your warmup and other punching. That would be a nice 30-40 minutes. You'll have great fun "sweatin' to the oldies" and perhaps show your son how we shook it back in the day...

(* PS. I was 54 when I filmed that BlueGrass clip)

[BoxingGranny]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the info on alternating workouts. I guess I could go 3 days a week working my lower body and 3 or 4 on the bag. BTW, I have an Everlast 4214 10" X 7", and have just ordered a double ended ball. (Maybe some bobbing and weaving will help pare down my waist a bit.) I'd like to try the Title 10 X 12, but it will have to wait a bit since I've emptied the piggy bank on this other equipment.

Keep well,
Bobbi

[BoxingGranny]

Hi Alan,

Thanks so much for the wealth of helpful info!! You guys are great! I'd say, according to your 3 levels, I'm between levels 1 and 2 - I can do some of the combos at a steady pace for a minute or two, but not at 3/4 speed. When I try to hit the bag with just one rebound, after just a few strikes I always end up hitting one hand with the other. More practice, practice, practice....

As you suggested, I tried doing elbow strikes this morning. Maybe I need either longer forearms or a shorter nose, but I didn't have much luck at all with the downward, (by the way, I clicked the link for the demo of you doing downward elbow striking, but it goes to the Basic FSP, FCP Rhythm demo.)

The outward elbow strikes went very well, as long as I was hitting the bag sideways. After a few starts and stops I got a steady rhythm going, and I realised that I recognized the tempo the bag was making. I was playing the William Tell Overture, better known to us baby boomers as the Lone Ranger theme. (Okay, maybe a WEE bit slower than it was written.) It was the most fun I've ever had exercising. I LOVE this stuff - it's like dancing with your arms, and I'm a Bobby sox and saddle shoes dancin' fool!!

Thanks again for all your help and encouragement!

Bobbi

[Speedbag]

Hi Alan,

Thanks so much for the wealth of helpful info!! You guys are great! I'd say, according to your 3 levels, I'm between levels 1 and 2 - I can do some of the combos at a steady pace for a minute or two, but not at 3/4 speed. When I try to hit the bag with just one rebound, after just a few strikes I always end up hitting one hand with the other. More practice, practice, practice....

As you suggested, I tried doing elbow strikes this morning. Maybe I need either longer forearms or a shorter nose, but I didn't have much luck at all with the downward, (by the way, I clicked the link for the demo of you doing downward elbow striking, but it goes to the Basic FSP, FCP Rhythm demo.)

The outward elbow strikes went very well, as long as I was hitting the bag sideways. After a few starts and stops I got a steady rhythm going, and I realised that I recognized the tempo the bag was making. I was playing the William Tell Overture, better known to us baby boomers as the Lone Ranger theme. (Okay, maybe a WEE bit slower than it was written.) It was the most fun I've ever had exercising. I LOVE this stuff - it's like dancing with your arms, and I'm a Bobby sox and saddle shoes dancin' fool!!

Thanks again for all your help and encouragement!

Bobbi

You can do some of the combo's at a steady pace? GREAT. Just do that, and try to learn new combo's. NEVER worry about speed, that will come with control. Always focus on control.

Outward Elbows (http://www.speedbagcentral.com/ssp/hitting_the_bag#D) (scroll down to the "downward" just underneath.

for the downward elbow, set up like you are going to throw a baseball overhand. your arm goes up and the elbow points forward as you move your arm frontwards. Then the point of the elbow comes downward into the bag belly.

click here for video combination demo's (http://www.speedbagcentral.com/ssp/multimedia?type=vid_2&c=3&p=1&clientId=55) and see clips #5-6-7 for elbow demo's.

I love to punch to the Wm Tell Overture! The main theme of that fast part (the repeating 3-beat theme..) exactly matches 3-punch Fist Rolls (Or triple Elbow strikes from the front) and you can punch directly on beat to that cadence. You might think this is nuts, but here it is written below (voicing underneath...) bold = louder

..RLR........RLR.......RLR........R.........R
F-Roll ' ' R-Roll ' ' F-Roll ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' ( to behind)
d-d-d.....d-d-d.....d-d-d.......d...-....d


..RLR........RLR.......RLR........R.........R
R-Roll ' ' F-Roll ' ' R-Roll ' ' FCP ' ' RSP ' ' ( to front)
d-d-d.....d-d-d.....d-d-d.......d...-.....d


..RLR........RLR.......RLR........R.........R
F-Roll ' ' R-Roll ' ' F-Roll ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' ( to behind)
d-d-d.....d-d-d.....d-d-d.......d...-....d


.RLR.....RLRLRLR.....R........R.....
R-Roll ' ' F-Roll ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' .. ( to behind and start over...)
d-d-d...ddddddd..-..d...-...d

Hi HO Silver, Away.....

(* note the seven punch F-Roll in the last line...)

that punching sequence exactly follows the melody pattern of the main theme. ;)

Trying this is not for the faint hearted.....it happens very fast on a very fast song and demands excellent control of fist rolling and passing through. As written it is pretty much right hand dominant but you can vary the lead fist of the rolls if you want to make it more complicated (as if.....)

[jaguiler]

mana video of this would be nice.... ;)

[SupergeZ]

mana video of this would be nice.... ;)

i was thinking exactly the same jaguiler :D

[BoxingGranny]

Yeah, I know! Unfortunately, one of the grandkids dropped my VDR, and it hasn't worked since. When I can afford to replace it, I'll get some video. (I would also need to figure out how to upload the video, which is something I haven't done yet - I just copied the mini discs to DVD.)

[BoxingGranny]

OOPS! Sorry - Disregard that last post. I thought your post was meant for me, but I bet it was for Alan, right? I'm still getting the hang of how this forum thing works! Please bear with me.
Thanks!!

[Chris M]

OOPS! Sorry - Disregard that last post. I thought your post was meant for me, but I bet it was for Alan, right? I'm still getting the hang of how this forum thing works! Please bear with me.
Thanks!!

No, I'm pretty sure it was for you. We know how Alan hits, we've got tons videos of him.

We're asking for videos so we can give you some pointers.

[BoxingGranny]

I've been working on the D-SES, but although I'm weaving and shifting my weight from foot to foot, the only way I'm able to hit the bag flush with the elbow is to also twist at the waist as I bring the elbow up for the strike. Is this bad form?

Thanks!

[Chris M]

I've been working on the D-SES, but although I'm weaving and shifting my weight from foot to foot, the only way I'm able to hit the bag flush with the elbow is to also twist at the waist as I bring the elbow up for the strike. Is this bad form?

Thanks!


It's kind of hard to tell from a description. A video would help us give you the best advice.

I understand it's not possible for you right now, so maybe viewing some of Alan's videos may help.

Check them out here: http://www.speedbagcentral.com/ssp/demos

[jaguiler]

No, I'm pretty sure it was for you. We know how Alan hits, we've got tons videos of him.

We're asking for videos so we can give you some pointers.

actually.......... Alan's viedo would be good.... as well as yours - we want both !

[Chris M]

Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, I've been so busy I haven't even worked out in a week now, let alone make time to record me on the bag.

Things should be letting up soon, my kitchen is nearing completion.

[BillyMack]

I don't care who you are, just post some video!!

[jaguiler]

OK videos needed:

1. Granny
2. Alan and described trick (which I already forgot)
3. Chris M

[Speedbag]

I've been working on the D-SES, but although I'm weaving and shifting my weight from foot to foot, the only way I'm able to hit the bag flush with the elbow is to also twist at the waist as I bring the elbow up for the strike. Is this bad form?

Thanks!

(* Ignore for a moment the amazing repetitive Downward Elbow combo's of Skunk and BillyMack. They are advanced baggers and easily do some things that are not natural for most. They are most likely possessed by speed bag demons...)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It is a very awkward combo to do repetitive Downward Elbow Strikes with either the same arm or other Arm. Just look at the body mechanics of the movement: it is two "inward" moving techniques (inward to the center of the body. even though the elbow moves "down" into the bag, this techniques has the same body move as a Front Straight Punch (FSP) and can replace that technique in the basic Rhythm. The FSP is an Inward Technique. You normally do not have Two Repetitive Inward Techniques follow each other. Try several repetitive FSP L,R,L,R. It is awkward. It can be done, but it is not naturally occuring. The Downward Elbows are the same way. It is much easier to do a D-SES after an Outward Elbow, or a Front Circle Punch (FCP).

Twisting at the waist is necessary to do the Downward Elbow Strikes. The best way to tell if you're doing it right is the quality of your elbow contact on the bag, (Solid hit on the underside or point of elbow. not slipping the forearm down the bag) and how the movement feels to you. You should follow a D-SES with a Front Circle Punch (FCP) of the Same Fist. So, after a Right D-SES you would do a Right FCP. The a Left D-SES and Left -FCP.

(*remember, the D-SES replaces the FSP in the basic rhythm, which goes Right FSP ' ' ' Right FCP ' ' ' Left FSP ' ' ' Left FCP )

You will eventually find it much easier to the D-DES. The double allows the arm to complete a better movement, and the bag naturally rebound into that fist. [You never have to place a fist on the bag after an elbow strike. The bag rebounds into it...]

[BillyMack]

(* Ignore for a moment the amazing repetitive Downward Elbow combo's of Skunk and BillyMack. They are advanced baggers and easily do some things that are not natural for most. They are most likely possessed by speed bag demons...)

Yup, a demon named Alan Kahn!

I'd like to add that one thing that helped me improve was posture. I started out too far from the bag, slouching into it. I noticed that Skunk keeps his trunk almost right under the bag, and arches his back way back. Trying this put my body in a better position to do elbow strikes, and from there I quickly picked up control and speed.

You never have to place a fist on the bag after an elbow strike. The bag rebounds into it...

tru that...go slow and concentrate one making one graceful motion through the bag, it will become habit eventually and you will have to try NOT to do it...

[JERSEY KID]

BoxingGranny,
Your body will let you know if you are overdoing it, a large factor into shedding unwanted lbs. is your intake of foods Eat less and keep moving I think it would be wise to add some fast walking(jogging),or bike riding or any other arobic activites to keep things fresh and get the heart rate up than hit the bag.

[BoxingGranny]

Hi Jersey Kid,

Thanks for the tips!!

I do have a treadmill, and I use it, but not consistently. After a few weeks, it just gets so boring that my 5 days a week becomes 3, then 2, etc. and then I may skip a couple weeks before I can make myself get back on it.

The whole reason for my trying the speedbag was to find something that I wouldn't dread getting up in the morning and jumping into. Also, to develop some upper body strength. I have definitely found it! And it's renewed my enthusiasm for the treadmill as well.

As for the food - I've adjusting my eating habits - no ridiculous fad thing - just cutting down on portion size, less starch and more protein, limiting the fats and sugars and drinking lots of water rather than sodas. (I do allow myself to eat whatever I want (within reason) one day a week, so I won't feel deprived and go on a sugar and carb binge. I've lost 7 pounds over the last month. Nothing earth shattering, but it's a start. Now if I can just stick to my guns!!

Keep well!

[JERSEY KID]

Hey BoxingGranny,
I have the same problem with the treadmill But I put on the old boob-tube and find something half way interesting and go for it I find being consistant pays off in a big way, now I no all metabolisms aren't the same but I lost 16lbs this past month by doing it. and like you when I finish I get to have some fun with the speedbag and mix in some weight lifting. I find running(or fast walk) a bore but it works and you can be done say 1 mile in 15 to 20 minutes and like you I only eat when I am hungry and stay away from sugar also. I agree you have to find something that you enjoy and it makes working out somewhat tolerable but as the saying goes JUST DO IT
Hey also they say if you feel hungry it really means your thirsty,yea right that's some bull:) Keep it up

[Speedbag]

BoxingGranny,.... it would be wise to add some fast walking(jogging),or bike riding or any other arobic activites to keep things fresh and get the heart rate up than hit the bag.

Why not do those "while" hitting the bag?

stepping? sure. Try this Electronic mini-stepper... (http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1327725&cp=710956.863233&parentPage=family)

or this Cory Everson model (http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2427074&cp=710956.863233&parentPage=family).

the Denis Austin Model (http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=527371&cp=710956.863233&parentPage=family)

they all require balance but would add the bigger leg muscles into your punching.

Cycling....

most of these Cycles (http://www.bigfitness.com/newbikes.html) would work with a speed bag....

where there's a will, there's a way... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHH8-sHRaZQ)