focus mitts; freestyle vs. combos...

[ashe]

what do you guys think?

the art i train is supposed to be formless, and as such we avoid all "techniques" and things like pre-arranged combos, so when i work with the mitts, it's always in a freestyle way.

i feel it's a lot more appropriate to what i do, however, i think the downside is it's not as quick and smooth (at least in appearance).

what do you guys think the benefits of training with a combo are?

[Speedbag]

what do you guys think?

the art i train is supposed to be formless, and as such we avoid all "techniques" and things like pre-arranged combos, so when i work with the mitts, it's always in a freestyle way.

i feel it's a lot more appropriate to what i do, however, i think the downside is it's not as quick and smooth (at least in appearance).

what do you guys think the benefits of training with a combo are?

That is exactly my philosophy on the speed bag, Nothing is pre-arranged. You can go from almost any technique to almost any other technique, in any order you want, creating literally hundreds of unrehearsed combinations :D

BUT

...unfortunately, that is the domain of the expert and the very experienced. To me, it may be unrehearsed at the moment. NOT unpracticed in the past.

I believe that philosophy makes for a lousy teaching system.

Most people I have taught (drums, racquetball, martial arts and speed bag) seemed to learn physical skills much faster with a small set of movements to practice - in a logical order of "easy to hard", - then learn a few more, then a few more - until with time, practice and muscle memory then can do them all and THEN they can "freestyle" as you mention.

And linking many of your techniques together at will, without pre-arranged thought, still takes many hours of practice in the mechanics of each move, the balance, weight shifts etc. I think it is hard to learn all that in a "freestyle" undisciplined manner.

Perhaps some martial arts have "freestyle" kata or forms, where each form is completely made up and changed at will. I personally have not seen that yet, but it would be an interesting concept. Formless Forms.

I think I personally fair better with a set of guideline combinations growing more and more advanced.

[ashe]

alan,

your point is a good one.

i guess i was training for bout 5 years before i picked up the mitts, so i already had a lot "movement" under my belt that i could translate to the mitts.

they basic structure of our system is;

1) solo drills (basic movement)
2) spinning hands (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmggvsjOHZQ) (partner training)
3) sticky hand (partner training)
4) qinna (grabs and locks)
5) san da (free sparring)

to me, mitt/pad work is like 1/2 sparring, so based on the structure above, mitt work would be like 4.5.

it's sort of a medium to explore all the things you've trained in the other three or four categories.

but i'm still looking to refine how i approach their use.

[BillinPEI]

I noticed this old thread and had to add in....

I do agree that prearrange combo's etc can lead to habits and "tells" etc.
When I spar people I have worked with for years I can almost see the moves coming so practising randomness is vital to staying fresh. Sparring should be a regular part of training and that is were opportunity and new things should be practiced.

Prearranged combo's and focus mitts. Well I'm biased in favour of the mitts and practicing combo's. I see too many fighters trying to land "singles" actually they aren't real fighters until they can throw more than a single (in my very humble opinion). I don't believe you should be a slave to a combo but I think you need to practice your combo's frequently and part of that training should include trying new things out to work the mind as much as the body. I practise all my combos but I tell my training partners the ones that work in a fight aren't the ones I set up but the ones I do with out thinking.

The most important part of the mitts to work technique and conditioning. I certainly keep my hands up or I get clipped in the ear! Like a golfer I get my swing adjusted every now and then when my partner notices a bad habit creep into my mitt work.

Back to the pads

5-3 minute rounds on the focus mitts a little skipping and bag work is a great way to stay out of trouble and stay sharp. I started using Muay Thai pads adding kicks... 3-5 rounds then hold the pads for your partner what a workout!

[toolboxdiver]

I noticed this old thread and had to add in....

I do agree that prearrange combo's etc can lead to habits and "tells" etc.
When I spar people I have worked with for years I can almost see the moves coming so practising randomness is vital to staying fresh. Sparring should be a regular part of training and that is were opportunity and new things should be practiced.

Prearranged combo's and focus mitts. Well I'm biased in favour of the mitts and practicing combo's. I see too many fighters trying to land "singles" actually they aren't real fighters until they can throw more than a single (in my very humble opinion). I don't believe you should be a slave to a combo but I think you need to practice your combo's frequently and part of that training should include trying new things out to work the mind as much as the body. I practise all my combos but I tell my training partners the ones that work in a fight aren't the ones I set up but the ones I do with out thinking.

The most important part of the mitts to work technique and conditioning. I certainly keep my hands up or I get clipped in the ear! Like a golfer I get my swing adjusted every now and then when my partner notices a bad habit creep into my mitt work.

Back to the pads

5-3 minute rounds on the focus mitts a little skipping and bag work is a great way to stay out of trouble and stay sharp. I started using Muay Thai pads adding kicks... 3-5 rounds then hold the pads for your partner what a workout!

Great point, the mitts are a great tool to add to your workout. I'm getting back into it after a long layoff and its all solo work for now hopefully I'll have a partner by summer to do some sparring and mitt work with.