torn rotator cuff

[tryme]

what a nice reply got me smilling there lol.

yeah im 22 im in full time work i got a son so you know will focus my mind else where for the time being whilst following my physio.

thank you

[crapshoot]

I'm no expert in physiology or therapy but the one thing I have learned is that you can pay now or pay later, and it's always more expensive later. Waiting sucks, but spending more time with your kid will be time you can't buy. You may want to even design some bag routines to try out when you're healthy to get going. Alan mentioned he did the same thing when he was writing the SBB. Go through it in your head and take notes.

Think of the payoff at the end and stay positive. Check out the vids and participate in the conversations and soon enough you'll be posting vids of your own.

[tryme]

this physio hasnt helped as of yet. im peed off. really dont know what to do

[Speedbag]

Originally Posted by tryme

this physio hasnt helped as of yet. im peed off. really dont know what to do

Failed Physio can mean a few things.

(1) You haven't done it long enough to tell any difference.

(2) The Physio is being "cheated", either doing more than necesssary (..outside the clinic) or less (skipping reps etc inside the clinic).

* I don't mean this as a "dig" on you, I'm just falling back on my own experience. I've had plenty of Physiotherapy/rehab and most of the time I was so anxious to "get better" I always did more than they wanted me to, thus overdoing it in the clinic and normally again at home "doing extra". Neither is a good idea. Second, while in the physio clinic I saw lots of other patients doing next to nothing. When the therapist walked away, they'd stop, and then start again when they thought he was coming up to check. The therapist would say "do three sets of 15", and they might do two sets of 5 or 6. I'm sitting on another seat watching them not do it and lie about it. (ps: the therapist knows, they see and they can tell when improvment isn't made. pps: the therapist still charged for the 3 sets of 15)

In both cases the result is the same, the situation doesn't improve as expected, and phsyio gets blamed, when the blame lies elsewhere.

Of course, Tryme, I'm not saying either is you, but just pointing out a few ways "physio" gets blamed with failure.

(3) If Physio "only" (conservative treatment) ultimately fails than that can mean the injury is worse and/or more extensive than first thought, and the possibility of surgery comes into play. For example if a rotator cuff tear injury is suspected, an it eventually will not heal on its own with therapy, then a surgical repair may be indicated. (Best part is, you will get to do the therapy all over again afterwards, so be nice to the therapy staff: you may see them again. I was in so often I was on their christmas card mailing list..)

There is a phrase in medicine. "Patients sometimes need Patience"

I hated it too. Good luck.

[bagdaddy]

Originally Posted by tryme

this physio hasnt helped as of yet. im peed off. really dont know what to do

I can relate to your frustration with the lack of results from your therapy. In November of 2009, I had surgery to repair a small tear in my right (strong side) supraspinatus muscle (one of the four rotator cuff muscles). I settled on the surgery only after nearly a year of unsuccessful therapy. I was in the same boat as Hannibal when he said “I walked around with a torn shoulder muscle for almost six years” and “the injury eventually grew scar tissue and began to atrophy.” I also can relate to and agree with both of speedbag’s posts.

I could probably write a book based on my trials throughout this ordeal. But I’m sure that everyone that’s had to endure recovering from a rotator cuff injury can say the same.

My doctor said that the muscle would be fully healed and reattached to the bone after one year, but I would be back to normal activity in six months. Well, to make a long story short…he was wrong. It has now been just over two years and I just last month have gotton to the point that I feel like my supraspinatus muscle is completely healed! For the sake of keeping this short, here are my learnings over two years.

1. I had atrophy prior to surgery.
2. My therapist’s recommendations were inadequate.
3. Healing took much longer than anticipated.
4. I had much more atrophy immediately after surgery.
5. Most of my post-surgery atrophy was in my scapular stabilizer muscles.
6. My weakened scapular stabilizer muscles tricked/confused me into thinking that my surgery did not take.
7. I realized the difference after doing the exercises from “The Ultimate Rotator Cuff Training Guide”. You can view it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwCIVCOEAyA
8. I further realized the difference last month after I began to hit the speedbag for the first time in my life. My right rotator cuff now feels just as strong as or maybe stronger than my left side.

For clarity, let me say that I still have very weak scapular stabilizer muscles. My plan now is to continue hitting the speedbag a few minutes each day…to continue specific scapular stabilizer exercises…and to reduce rotator cuff exercises to the bare minimum per The Ultimate Rotator Cuff Training Guide.

I tried to keep this short. If I can clarify anything, please ask.

Bagdaddy

[Speedbag]

Originally Posted by bagdaddy

I can relate to your frustration with the lack of results from your therapy. In November of 2009, I had surgery to repair a small tear in my right (strong side) supraspinatus muscle (one of the four rotator cuff muscles). I settled on the surgery only after nearly a year of unsuccessful therapy. I was in the same boat as Hannibal when he said “I walked around with a torn shoulder muscle for almost six years” and “the injury eventually grew scar tissue and began to atrophy.” I also can relate to and agree with both of speedbag’s posts.

I could probably write a book based on my trials throughout this ordeal. But I’m sure that everyone that’s had to endure recovering from a rotator cuff injury can say the same.

My doctor said that the muscle would be fully healed and reattached to the bone after one year, but I would be back to normal activity in six months. Well, to make a long story short…he was wrong. It has now been just over two years and I just last month have gotton to the point that I feel like my supraspinatus muscle is completely healed! For the sake of keeping this short, here are my learnings over two years.

1. I had atrophy prior to surgery.
2. My therapist’s recommendations were inadequate.
3. Healing took much longer than anticipated.
4. I had much more atrophy immediately after surgery.
5. Most of my post-surgery atrophy was in my scapular stabilizer muscles.
6. My weakened scapular stabilizer muscles tricked/confused me into thinking that my surgery did not take.7. I realized the difference after doing the exercises from “The Ultimate Rotator Cuff Training Guide”. You can view it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwCIVCOEAyA
8. I further realized the difference last month after I began to hit the speedbag for the first time in my life. My right rotator cuff now feels just as strong as or maybe stronger than my left side.

For clarity, let me say that I still have very weak scapular stabilizer muscles. My plan now is to continue hitting the speedbag a few minutes each day…to continue specific scapular stabilizer exercises…and to reduce rotator cuff exercises to the bare minimum per The Ultimate Rotator Cuff Training Guide.

I tried to keep this short. If I can clarify anything, please ask.

Bagdaddy

Bagdaddy I will agree with you about the roll of the scapular stabizers and your shoulder. I have had the same issue, but for perhaps a different reason. (mine is more from cervical spine, brachial plexus....). Either way, so goes your scapular stability, so goes your shoulder. If the scapula doesn't maintain position or work as designed, your shoulder is rotating in a time bomb. I too wish I had known more about the scapula stabilizer muscles and stablization exercises in my "younger" days. Hope all works out well with your situation.

[bagdaddy]

Thanks Alan.

Originally Posted by tryme

Hi guys I've got a torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder. I had to quit boxing it got that bad. I can't sleep on my left side as I relax my shoulder slides out the socket due to my body weight being on it and it hurts more and more as time goes on.

Will the speed bag make it better or worse?

tryme,

Two years after surgery, I still do not sleep on my surgery side shoulder (right). When lying on my left side, I have a small pillow under my right arm pit. It was required after surgery, but now it's for peace of mind. The pillow helps to keep the right shoulder joint in a more neutral position while lying on my left side.

Speedbag's witness to the scapular stabilizer muscles role...I believe...should not be overlooked or taken lightly. My suggestion to you would be to learn ALL you can about their role in the proper function of your shoulder joint BEFORE a lot of wasted time with improper therapy and especially BEFORE any surgery. Did you check out the link to “The Ultimate Rotator Cuff Training Guide”? If not, do yourself a favor.

We all know that hindsight is 20/20. It will be that way with you in your case as well, because you will learn things that can't be learned short of living them.

I will share with you a philosophy that I have recently adopted. Here it is (I don't know yet how to articulate it in shorter fashion): "If you don't want to experience Diverticulitis, learn all you can about preventing it NOW. If you don't want to experience Hemorrhoids, learn all you can about preventing it NOW. If you don't want to experience Heart Disease, learn all you can about preventing it NOW. If you don't want to experience a Rotator Cuff Injury, learn all you can about preventing it NOW."

I'm sure this sounds simplistic, but if we apply this philosophy on matters that we may be at risk for (lifestyle, genetics, family history, etc.) we can reduce some of the negative aspects of 20/20 hindsight.

Your query into this subject on this forum was a wise choice! I haven't seen a lot of response in this particular thread, but I have seen great advice throughout this forum on this subject. I'm not very versed in how to search the forum, but you would do well to search out all you can from some earlier posts.

I wish you complete success and a speedy recovery!

Bagdaddy

p.s.: In my case, I had never hit a speed bag until after assumed-full-recovery of my rotator cuff. However, after hitting the speed bag, the response I got from my shoulder took me from assuming full recovery to being convinced of full recovery...save my scapular stabilizer muscles!

[bagdaddy]

Originally Posted by Speedbag

Bagdaddy I will agree with you about the roll of the scapular stabizers and your shoulder. I have had the same issue, but for perhaps a different reason. (mine is more from cervical spine, brachial plexus....). Either way, so goes your scapular stability, so goes your shoulder. If the scapula doesn't maintain position or work as designed, your shoulder is rotating in a time bomb. I too wish I had known more about the scapula stabilizer muscles and stablization exercises in my "younger" days. Hope all works out well with your situation.

Very good point Alan. Well taken!

Bagdaddy

[Speedbag]

Originally Posted by bagdaddy

Very good point Alan. Well taken!

Bagdaddy

My current (had several...) shoulder surgeon told me that 90% of shoulders that are degenerated to the point of needing replacement have significant problems with scapular stabilization. The health and wear of the joint cartilage tissue of both (1) the glenoid fossa and (2) the humeral head are directly related to the position, spacing and function of the scapulo-humeral alignment and the associated angles created by movement. A sagging, winged or overly tight or mis-aligned scapula (for any one of numerous reasons) will eventually create extensive wear and tear on the cartilage tissue of both the glenoid and humeral head. If this is not corrected by exercise or surgery, the tissue will eventually be worn away. Most especially in a shoulder requiring high use and repetititive motion. Like a speed bagger, upper body lifter, basketball player, racquetball, volleyball etc.

And when the cartilage is gone, it's gone. And it hurts. a lot. When you move your shoulder, and when you don't.

Anyone who has tried sleeping on a shoulder that has lost most if its cartilage will attest to how bad a shoulder can hurt without movement required.

For those interested in a bit more on shoulder issues and the possible treatments, I suggest reading the Shoulder Blog of
Dr. Fred Matsen III MD He is an orthopedic shoulder specialist at the Department of Orthopedics and Sports Medicine at the University of Washington.
I might add there is another physician associated with this location that is an avid speed bag enthusiast and visits our forum occasionally..

Some of the article links include a deeper understanding of medical terminology. Don't be afraid of the "Doctor Speak" if you are not used to it. When I do reading for medical or rehabilitation research on any topic, I always open a quick link to a medical dictionary so I can quickly drop in any word or phrase I don't understand. Like anything else, If you want to know what someone says then you have to understand their language. Doctors say a lot of things for each other, and a dictionary helps you break their code.

Hope it helps!

Knowledge is Power. Always has been.

[bagdaddy]

Originally Posted by Speedbag

For those interested in a bit more on shoulder issues and the possible treatments, I suggest reading the Shoulder Blog of
Dr. Fred Matsen III MD He is an orthopedic shoulder specialist at the Department of Orthopedics and Sports Medicine at the University of Washington.

Great lead Alan. Thanks!