Feedback on the DEVILLE Swivel

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  • MsDeville
    Senior Member

    • Oct 2009
    • 1301

    Feedback on the DEVILLE Swivel

    Well, some feedback is coming in on the DEVILLE "A-51" Swivel. So far, I'm getting a lot of favorable reviews. Thank you all for your feedback!

    I received an email this morning about the new swivel from a long-time forum member and I decided to post it here. Mainly to see if others have experienced this in their swivel.

    "I got it and I like it....it IS smooth, fast and quiet. I do have one issue with it, I hate to say:

    The ball is so tight in the housing (and I understand, I think, why you endeavored to tighten that up to eliminate 'excessive upward play or slop' so it'd track better, esp on mis-hits) that the bag does not spin. I mean it only rotates 360-540 degrees before it stops and usually it rides up so the top of S-hook travels up onto the eye hook (I am not a big fan of this style of S-hook, the asymmetrical one).
    This action (or inaction, failure to spin) happens with all my bags.

    Please don't misunderstand me on this now: I think it's a very cool swivel and appreciate the innovation...and you seem very sharp, nice and genuine. Do you or Raul have any ideas on how I might free this up to spin better? Except for this one sticking point, it works really, really well. Thanks!"



    The first thing to check would be the lubrication. If the ball seems a little slow, just add some lubricant – petroleum jelly, etc.

    If this doesn't remedy the problem, then try this:

    Raul suggests a "fix" for this, only for those who have the tools/ability to do so, of course. It involves removing the S-hook from the i-bolt.

    If the well where the ball rests is too tight – take a dremel tool and ream it out just a tiny bit, taking care not to touch the edge of the opening where the ball rests. This will open it up a bit and should improve the "spin factor."

    If this is not an option, then I told this member to return it and we would fix it, or send a new one.
    sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
    I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts
  • MsDeville
    Senior Member

    • Oct 2009
    • 1301

    #2
    Originally posted by MsDeville View Post
    Well, some feedback is coming in on the DEVILLE "A-51" Swivel. So far, I'm getting a lot of favorable reviews. Thank you all for your feedback!

    I received an email this morning about the new swivel from a long-time forum member and I decided to post it here. Mainly to see if others have experienced this in their swivel.

    "I got it and I like it....it IS smooth, fast and quiet. I do have one issue with it, I hate to say:

    The ball is so tight in the housing (and I understand, I think, why you endeavored to tighten that up to eliminate 'excessive upward play or slop' so it'd track better, esp on mis-hits) that the bag does not spin. I mean it only rotates 360-540 degrees before it stops and usually it rides up so the top of S-hook travels up onto the eye hook (I am not a big fan of this style of S-hook, the asymmetrical one).
    This action (or inaction, failure to spin) happens with all my bags.

    Please don't misunderstand me on this now: I think it's a very cool swivel and appreciate the innovation...and you seem very sharp, nice and genuine. Do you or Raul have any ideas on how I might free this up to spin better? Except for this one sticking point, it works really, really well. Thanks!"



    The first thing to check would be the lubrication. If the ball seems a little slow, just add some lubricant – petroleum jelly, etc.

    If this doesn't remedy the problem, then try this:

    Raul suggests a "fix" for this, only for those who have the tools/ability to do so, of course. It involves removing the S-hook from the i-bolt.

    If the well where the ball rests is too tight – take a dremel tool and ream it out just a tiny bit, taking care not to touch the edge of the opening where the ball rests. This will open it up a bit and should improve the "spin factor."

    If this is not an option, then I told this member to return it and we would fix it, or send a new one.

    UPDATE:

    This member called me over the weekend about the issue with the swivel, and after talking to Raul, it was determined that the hole on the base where the brass ball sits, was too small. He was able to remedy this himself and made the hole slightly larger. By doing this, the ball sat lower, and more of the brass ball was exposed in the opening and improved performance.
    sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
    I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

    Comment

    • CMP
      Member
      • Jan 2012
      • 32

      #3
      A-51 Swivel

      Hello Dee,
      I got my second swivel today and the weather was dry so I was able to head outside and play....It was 39 degrees here in VT and I was outside in a T-shirt for about three hours and it was all because this swivel ROCKS!

      A total improvement over the junky stamped steel ball & hook I had before. Man I thought this board was a dud and that I had wasted my cash on it but your swivel changed it from a dud to a functional piece of gear.

      I found the action SMOOTH, FAST, and FREE...a lot like my rope swivels in fact. It is also very quiet, I did not use any Vaseline as I was not sure if it would get sticky in the cold but it was still screaming, I mean the whole shed was rocking and the metal roof was a singing, just ask the neighbors......

      Anyway thanks a bunch, and please pass on my thanks to Trainer Raul not only for the swivel but for his 4-way elbow video on YouTube. I have been working on that since i saw the clip....

      Swivel #2 will be put on a vertical board ASAP, I got the fever.....
      Thanks Chris
      Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.......Bruce Lee

      Comment

      • MsDeville
        Senior Member

        • Oct 2009
        • 1301

        #4
        Originally posted by CMP View Post
        Hello Dee,
        I got my second swivel today ....It was 39 degrees here in VT and I was outside in a T-shirt for about three hours and it was all because this swivel ROCKS!

        A total improvement over the junky stamped steel ball & hook I had before. Man I thought this board was a dud and that I had wasted my cash on it but your swivel changed it from a dud to a functional piece of gear.
        A review like this makes me SMILE!

        I've been hearing good things about the swivel when using the Fighting Sports bag – I've noticed a difference in my FS bag – but this is really good news to hear that it made such a positive difference with your platform! Awesome!


        Originally posted by CMP View Post
        I found the action SMOOTH, FAST, and FREE...a lot like my rope swivels in fact. It is also very quiet, I did not use any Vaseline as I was not sure if it would get sticky in the cold but it was still screaming, I mean the whole shed was rocking and the metal roof was a singing, just ask the neighbors...
        Thanks for the great review, CMP!

        Here is the link to my original Swivel Thread, introducing it, for those want to read more opinions on it: http://www.speedbagforum.com/forums/...ead.php?t=4114

        sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
        I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

        Comment

        • Speedbag
          Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

          • Feb 2006
          • 7109

          #5
          I have used the Deville Swivel and here is a video clip showing it.

          Also, notice the little bit of hitting on the Powermill at the opening. I added that in just to offer a sound comparison between the two. Both are Excellent Ballhooks.

          The Deville Swivel Parts of 2 songs "Control your Body" and "I can Feel The Beat".




          Speed Bag

          Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
          *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
          The Quest Continues...
          Hoping for another Gathering...


          sigpic

          The Art of the Bag

          Comment

          • ebozyn
            Speed Bag Guru
            • Oct 2010
            • 500

            #6
            Sorry AK, i screen captured from your Video. haha


            Here's a nice screen capture of the S-Hook on the DEVILLE SWIVEL. Looks to be a very cool design. What really looks interesting to me is that: It looks like you could take the S-Hook off when ever you wanted to, and throw on a carabiner, or another S-Hook, or a Nova style Zip Tie if you have one, yet after the workout this swivel took in this AK video it stayed in place perfectly.

            This swivel although being a quiet swivel, it also has a nice little pleasing CLANKING from the link between the S-Hook and the eyelet shank.

            Another great swivel from the Forum.

            Great Design and Craftsmanship Ms D. and Raul.
            Attached Files

            Comment

            • Speedbag
              Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

              • Feb 2006
              • 7109

              #7
              Originally posted by ebozyn View Post
              Sorry AK, i screen captured from your Video. haha

              Here's a nice screen capture of the S-Hook on the DEVILLE SWIVEL. Looks to be a very cool design. What really looks interesting to me is that: It looks like you could take the S-Hook off when ever you wanted to, and throw on a carabiner, or another S-Hook, or a Nova style Zip Tie if you have one, yet after the workout this swivel took in this AK video it stayed in place perfectly.

              This swivel although being a quiet swivel, it also has a nice little pleasing CLANKING from the link between the S-Hook and the eyelet shank.

              Another great swivel from the Forum.

              Great Design and Craftsmanship Ms D. and Raul.
              That is true, You CAN take off the S-Hook, which I really like.

              In the "unposted" version, I talked about (1) the new PRO Title Bag, and the (2) the Swivel, in which I described the swivel and options for hook and demonstated how this HOOK can be used with a Cleto Rey thick bag loop, and how that is a problem with other swivels.

              But I didn't like the two or three takes of talking, so I just used the music.

              Here's a tip for presentation video's.....

              (1) I often start hitting to music to a certain point in the song, then stop the bag (LH on bag) and go to the CD player, (cut)

              (2) Then I can start in the same "hold bag (LH), extend RH to CD Player Position" and come back to front "talking" position, with any props, swivels bags, etc. I need on top of CD player just off screen left. I can end the "talk scene" by turning to CD player and extend RH.

              (3) Then I can do exit music Demo by starting from the "turn to CD RH extended", Have the CD cued to where it needs to be and start music, Start punchdrumming to fade out.

              This allows for THREE complete scenes and each can be redone as many times as you want until it looks and sounds OK. Imagine, without planning your edit points, (your winging it..) that you go 8 minutes into a Demo and then really screw up, or a Neighbors dog starts barking loudly or car horn blows or phones ring, ,or you forget what you saying, miss the bag, or otherwise screw up and then you have to RE-DO the whole thing.... Bad Idea, So I normally plan where I can create edit points to redo short scenes as needed. (I can also do this when punchdrumming and be sure to do the same Technique at the same part of the song each time)
              This ikind of "planning" and post production is hard for the Phone Video crowd that shoot and post raw footage immediately, - but poorly lit, unedited, rambling video is not for me. Like most, I watch a lot of "how to" YT video's on lots of subjects, and 9 out of 10 are screaming for some pre and post production layout planning, focused script writing and more lighting. they are well intended but poorly executed.

              Anyway, Here are a few swivel pic captures of the JumpCannon and Deville Ballhooks from the original Video files. This will help you see the difference in eyeshanks and contact. Notice on my Jumpcannon model, the eyeshank hits the housing and on the Deville (latest model I have) the eye of the shank contacts the housing.
              Attached Files
              Speed Bag

              Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
              *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
              The Quest Continues...
              Hoping for another Gathering...


              sigpic

              The Art of the Bag

              Comment

              • MsDeville
                Senior Member

                • Oct 2009
                • 1301

                #8
                Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                I have used the Deville Swivel and here is a video clip showing it.

                Also, notice the little bit of hitting on the Powermill at the opening. I added that in just to offer a sound comparison between the two. Both are Excellent Ballhooks.

                The Deville Swivel Parts of 2 songs "Control your Body" and "I can Feel The Beat".






                Alan, thank you so much for posting the comments and video. You really did the A-51 Deville justice with your phenomenal punch drumming. A really awesome display of your talent. You rock, Mr. Kahn.


                Originally posted by ebozyn View Post
                ...Looks to be a very cool design. What really looks interesting to me is that: It looks like you could take the S-Hook off when ever you wanted to, and throw on a carabiner, or another S-Hook, or a Nova style Zip Tie if you have one, yet after the workout this swivel took in this AK video it stayed in place perfectly.

                This swivel although being a quiet swivel, it also has a nice little pleasing CLANKING from the link between the S-Hook and the eyelet shank.

                Another great swivel from the Forum.

                Great Design and Craftsmanship Ms D. and Raul.

                Thanks for the nice remarks, ebo. Raul did most of the design work and I am assisting in the assembling and finishing of the swivels. Yes, there is a slight knock or click when punching, but hopefully most users will find it to be quieter than other swivels.

                The open S-hook was actually unintentional. This is just my opinion, but I think it takes a highly skilled bagger to be able to punch a bag with an open S-hook that doesn't jump off the I-bolt during play. And Alan accomplished this, no sweat. I am working towards making a removable S-hook that will work with all levels of speed baggers. It would be nice to have a choice of using a zip tie or carabiner, or shoelace!



                Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                ...Here are a few swivel pic captures of the JumpCannon and Deville Ballhooks from the original Video files. This will help you see the difference in eyeshanks and contact. Notice on my Jumpcannon model, the eyeshank hits the housing and on the Deville (latest model I have) the eye of the shank contacts the housing.

                The placement of the eye shank is Raul's design. His thought was this: He knows the housing will chip or wear down when the single post from the eye bolt strikes against it repeatedly. In order to decrease the impact against the housing, he soldered the eye bolt deeper into the brass ball, making it so both sides of the eye bolt strike against it most of the time – there is less trauma to the opening this way.

                And from watching Alan's video, it doesn't appear to impede the speed bag performance in any way. I know it doesn't affect my workouts. And the added plus to this, is that it shortens the hang of the bag by nearly a quarter of an inch. It doesn't sound like much, but every fraction of an inch that can be removed to shorten the distance between the swivel and the bag loop makes a huge difference in speed, in my opinion.



                Originally posted by ventanakaz
                for me i'm picky about the housing contact point (contact between eye bolt and base) so on the powermill swivel i cut more threads to get the eye bolt as close as i can without the eye hitting and on some of the old everlast swivels i will lower it or if one side of the eye hits the base i will cut the metal so it clears. so can you lower the eye bolt on the deville swivel so it doesn't hit the base and it make contact point with just the shaft of the eye bolt ? ...ralph
                Hey Ralph, it will be no problem to make a custom brass ball/eye bolt and have more exposed shaft. Let me know if you want to swap out your eye bolt/ball for a customized eye bolt.
                sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
                I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

                Comment

                • Speedbag
                  Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                  • Feb 2006
                  • 7109

                  #9
                  Originally posted by MsDeville View Post
                  ...The placement of the eye shank is Raul's design. His thought was this: He knows the housing will chip or wear down when the single post from the eye bolt strikes against it repeatedly. In order to decrease the impact against the housing, he soldered the eye bolt deeper into the brass ball, making it so both sides of the eye bolt strike against it most of the time – there is less trauma to the opening this way.

                  And from watching Alan's video, it doesn't appear to impede the speed bag performance in any way. I know it doesn't affect my workouts. And the added plus to this, is that it shortens the hang of the bag by nearly a quarter of an inch. It doesn't sound like much, but every fraction of an inch that can be removed to shorten the distance between the swivel and the bag loop makes a huge difference in speed, in my opinion.
                  I didn't notice any impedance of bag performance either. Speed and rebound arc were both excellent, sound was definitely less than standard metal ballhook.

                  Simply an Awesome Swivel.
                  Speed Bag

                  Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                  *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                  The Quest Continues...
                  Hoping for another Gathering...


                  sigpic

                  The Art of the Bag

                  Comment

                  • shacke
                    Speed Bag Trainee
                    • Feb 2012
                    • 12

                    #10
                    Hi Dee

                    After a few weeks, I am chiming in for some help. My swivel is really noisy. It is definitely not the same performance as in Alans' video (both swivel and technique lol).

                    The ball is being driven up into the board. While I don't mind the noise so much, the kinetic energy of punching seems to be wasted somewhat driving the ball into the board and the bag is being pretty slow. I inflated it more to speed it up but the issue persists.

                    I am using a Title board and any advice is appreciated!

                    Comment

                    • MsDeville
                      Senior Member

                      • Oct 2009
                      • 1301

                      #11
                      Originally posted by shacke View Post
                      Hi Dee

                      After a few weeks, I am chiming in for some help. My swivel is really noisy. It is definitely not the same performance as in Alans' video (both swivel and technique lol).

                      The ball is being driven up into the board. While I don't mind the noise so much, the kinetic energy of punching seems to be wasted somewhat driving the ball into the board and the bag is being pretty slow. I inflated it more to speed it up but the issue persists.

                      I am using a Title board and any advice is appreciated!

                      Hey Shack. Thanks for the question and I will answer to the best of my ability, based on the information you gave.


                      If it sounds like the ball is hitting up into the platform, it might be doing exactly that! I have heard the ball knock a bit when punching. I try to include a gasket with each swivel, to be used by those who find that it helps diminish any excess knocking noise. In any case, if the ball seems to be driven into the board, there is only a 3/16" clearance for it do this. Is there a void in your platform?

                      It could be the angle at which the bag is being struck, or, maybe the velocity... Does the bag fall at chin level? If you are too low to the bag, your strikes will definitely cause the ball to be driven up agains the platform. I don't know your skill level, so it's hard to say if this is a factor...

                      Your platform will have an impact on the noise level. There are several styles of Title platforms (see photos for samples) and range in price from $59 to $800+!

                      If you have a thin platform – approx. 1" thick – I think you're going to hear a lot of rattling and excess noise. (Like a hollow-core interior door sounds different from a solid-core exterior door.) Beefing up a platform can do wonders for improved performance of the bagger as well as the bag and swivel!

                      I'm not sure what size bags you are hitting on, but if you have a medium or large bag, try the "spin test" to make sure the swivel is free and smooth. Do this after warming it up for a few minutes. If you have pre-lubed the brass ball with a dab of vaseline, then take your bag and give it a spin. It should spin several revolutions with unrestricted ease. (The smaller, lighter bags won't spin as long.) As for slower play, it might be the particular bag you are using. There are some dead bags out there. Some can be fixed with a good bladder. Others are just plain bad.

                      Unfortunately, speed bagging is a noisy hobby, and even though I think the Deville is one of the quietest swivels, it's not totally noiseless [dang]. But, it is quieter than metal on metal.

                      If you still have questions, Shacke, please PM me. Thanks.
                      Attached Files
                      sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
                      I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

                      Comment

                      • ebozyn
                        Speed Bag Guru
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 500

                        #12
                        I believe i know the sound you're referring to. It's like a "KNOCK". This knocking sound, as i have come to know it comes from hitting the bag at an angle that causes the ball to jump up in the swivel's housing, hitting the board. This happens from time to time, and when it does happen to me, i just have to recognize it for what it is in most cases: A technique problem, and not an equipment problem.

                        This happened to me quite a lot for the first few months after i started bagging. (It still does every once in a while.) It usually can be fixed, or cured easily by just slowing down my bagging for a while, and paying close attention to the angle i hit the bag, where on the bag i make contact, and when i make contact with the bag... The timing.

                        Another thing is this seems to occur more often to me when i'm using the plastic swivel with plastic ball, or if i have a really light bag on the hook. the light bags have a tendency to "Float" the ball up into the swivel housing a little easier than a heavier bag, and metal swivel, and or ball.

                        best of luck. keep on bagging.



                        Originally posted by shacke View Post
                        Hi Dee

                        After a few weeks, I am chiming in for some help. My swivel is really noisy. It is definitely not the same performance as in Alans' video (both swivel and technique lol).

                        The ball is being driven up into the board. While I don't mind the noise so much, the kinetic energy of punching seems to be wasted somewhat driving the ball into the board and the bag is being pretty slow. I inflated it more to speed it up but the issue persists.

                        I am using a Title board and any advice is appreciated!
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by ebozyn; 03-11-2012, 08:43 PM.

                        Comment

                        • shacke
                          Speed Bag Trainee
                          • Feb 2012
                          • 12

                          #13
                          Thank YOU for the gracious, fast and complete replies.

                          I am glad to know it is my technique and not the swivel since what you are describing is what I am experiencing.

                          I will definitely post a video - but don't laugh too hard

                          I think this swivel is uncovering the technical problems since I had the stock Title chain u-link swivel and there was no way the bag could make that same noise. BTW I am using the Title board in the first row on the right of Dee's pictures in her reply to me (I have to say I don't care for the rotating adjustment arm since it impedes my working all around the bag). Oh well. At least I have one in my house now!

                          I look forward to using this extra noise to improve my skills. Til now I was relying on that clear "klink" noise that would tell me if I hit too early. Having another sound to tame is another great help.

                          I will post a video and request for assistance so I don't hijack the theme of this thread.

                          Thanks again!

                          Evan

                          Comment

                          • Speedbag
                            Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                            • Feb 2006
                            • 7109

                            #14
                            Originally posted by shacke View Post
                            Hi Dee

                            After a few weeks, I am chiming in for some help. My swivel is really noisy. It is definitely not the same performance as in Alans' video (both swivel and technique lol).

                            The ball is being driven up into the board. While I don't mind the noise so much, the kinetic energy of punching seems to be wasted somewhat driving the ball into the board and the bag is being pretty slow. I inflated it more to speed it up but the issue persists.

                            I am using a Title board and any advice is appreciated!

                            The sound you hear is indeed the ball knocking up onto the board, as dee and ebozyn and others have said. Ebozyn is correct in that it is due to hitting the bag in a slightly upward direction. It can happen due to several reasons but most will not really effect the routine unless you hit so late in the rebound as to kill the bag and change the speed. I heard the clicking a lot also, and it is still quieter than most metal ballhooks. I did not find it annoying. I also hear it occasionally on my "other" custom swivel of a metal ball in a plastic housing. the ball will occasionally pop up and hit the board. As your technique gets cleaner you may hear it less and less, but all of us who attack from all around the bag with fists and elbows will sometimes catch the bag at an angle that creates the slightly upward angle.

                            As long as the bag maintains speed and keeps going so you don't lose control, it's just the sound of the bag. You're not doing anything wrong.

                            Still an awesome swivel. the Deville Swivel Rocks.
                            Speed Bag

                            Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                            *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                            The Quest Continues...
                            Hoping for another Gathering...


                            sigpic

                            The Art of the Bag

                            Comment

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