New Member Long Time Reader Needs Help

[MDJAK]

First and foremost, I've watched the amazingly helpful Youtube videos of Alan Kahn. My many thanks for those. They are far and away the best speedbag videos on the web. I've also seen some from a member called "skunk" I think, and his was also quite helpful.

So I finally decided to join. In dog years, I'm dead; older than dirt, as some say.

How old? Nah, not 80, only 59, and I do my best to go to the gym regularly and stay in shape. Years back a gym I belonged to had a speedbag and I began to use it. I loved it immediately. The shoulder workout was great and I saw results in my shoulder muscles quickly.

Fast forward 20 years to present day and my gym has heavy bags but no speedbag. I also find that when gyms do have them, they are almost always out of commission. I'm not speaking of a boxing gym obviously.

This past Christmas I asked my wife to buy me the Balazs iBox platform and she did. Unfortunately, I have expensive taste and didn't realize there were better ones that are much easier to adjust, I'm imaging. This is very difficult to loosen all four knobs and raise or lower it. I also immediately disliked the fake "wood" of the platform.

So I called and spoke to Brian from Balazs and purchased the level 7 swivel for close to a hundred bucks and a maple board to replace the one that came with it. Brian was very nice and helpful. Very fast shipping.

I got the maple replacement, mounted it, and mounted the level 7 swivel. I liked both. However, I'm always looking to upgrade. Thankfully I've been somewhat successful in life and can buy what I want within reason. I don't hesitate to buy something new when I see it if I think it's better than what I have currently.

I have 2 Balazs speedbags, the smallest (peanut) and next size up. I find them to be very well made. But naturally I tried a Title bag. The seams aren't as well made, the laces are a bit of a pain, and it's just not as good in my humble opinion.

So I then purchased a Cleto Reyes multi color bag. The fact that it comes with a replacement bladder with instructions that look like surgery was not comforting. The fact that the air hole for the installed bladder was not lined up to the hole in the bag, not even close, was also slightly irritating. At the same time, I purchased the Cleto Reyes swivel. I do not like that at all. I was looking to improve upon the level 7 of Balazs, but I must admit the Balazs is better.

Let me state I have absolutely no connection whatsoever with Balazs. As I said above, I'm not thrilled with the iBox platform.

So apologizing for being so wordy, and I'm sure most have already closed this thread without bothering to reply, to those who have stuck with me:

Why is it so hard to find something that is of high quality, at least inch and a half to two inch real wood board on an easily adjustable platform?

Thanks to Alan I can now do the double punch forward and reverse. Keep trying the side punch but the swivels I have don't seem to allow that.

Is the Deville swivel of good quality? It looks to be cheaply made from the pics I see. But is that the de facto swivel to do tricks?

Truly sorry to have gone on so long. In advance I very much appreciate your help and suggestions.

My name is Mark.

[Speedbag]

First and foremost, I've watched the amazingly helpful Youtube videos of Alan Kahn. My many thanks for those. They are far and away the best speedbag videos on the web. I've also seen some from a member called "skunk" I think, and his was also quite helpful.

So I finally decided to join. In dog years, I'm dead; older than dirt, as some say.

How old? Nah, not 80, only 59, and I do my best to go to the gym regularly and stay in shape. Years back a gym I belonged to had a speedbag and I began to use it. I loved it immediately. The shoulder workout was great and I saw results in my shoulder muscles quickly.

Fast forward 20 years to present day and my gym has heavy bags but no speedbag. I also find that when gyms do have them, they are almost always out of commission. I'm not speaking of a boxing gym obviously.

This past Christmas I asked my wife to buy me the Balazs iBox platform and she did. Unfortunately, I have expensive taste and didn't realize there were better ones that are much easier to adjust, I'm imaging. This is very difficult to loosen all four knobs and raise or lower it. I also immediately disliked the fake "wood" of the platform.

So I called and spoke to Brian from Balazs and purchased the level 7 swivel for close to a hundred bucks and a maple board to replace the one that came with it. Brian was very nice and helpful. Very fast shipping.

I got the maple replacement, mounted it, and mounted the level 7 swivel. I liked both. However, I'm always looking to upgrade. Thankfully I've been somewhat successful in life and can buy what I want within reason. I don't hesitate to buy something new when I see it if I think it's better than what I have currently.

Hello Mark and Welcome to the forum.

First off, I am very glad any information, book, video or post I have made has helped you. That always helps justify the "several hours" I have spent under the board or thinking or writing about it. This forum has just turned 10 years old and before it I dwelled many a day in other boxing or fitness forums.

59 is early in speed bag years, so you're doing fine. For the record, speed bags always respect their elders. Boards, ...not so much. Always check the bolts and knobs.

As for the IBox, many of us have them and have hit them a lot at the gatherings we have in new jersey. Balazs, Especially Brian (owner) has been very gracious to we baggers in donating lots of equipment over the past 10 years. Personally I think their boards are awesome, for I have hit a lot of different brands and styles. I personally find little difference in the bags reaction to fake board material or actual wood surface. The key for me is how solid the wall unit is and the reduction of vibration. Many folks in here have modified the ibox model with different boards and swivel designs. A few years ago there was a rush to drill the swivel holes all the way through and run long bolts up through the center. Bolting the swivel to the board eliminates any problems with the small screws vibrating themselves loose from their holes. That can cause problems due to the fact that the holes always expand and after a while the screw won't tighten. Sure get a bigger screw, but at some point the hole in the swivel base will limit the size of the screw you can use. Bolting stops all of that. However, the Ibox has the "V" shaped brackets on top that met right over the center of the board. Some pretty ingenious ideas and methods were hatched to address that. There was even a template made for members to use to help line up the holes. Lately that topic has not been an issue, for some reason.

I'm glad you got to talk to Brian personally. He truly is one of a kind in the business world and we baggers owe him a lot.

So I then purchased a Cleto Reyes multi color bag. The fact that it comes with a replacement bladder with instructions that look like surgery was not comforting. The fact that the air hole for the installed bladder was not lined up to the hole in the bag, not even close, was also slightly irritating. At the same time, I purchased the Cleto Reyes swivel. I do not like that at all. I was looking to improve upon the level 7 of Balazs, but I must admit the Balazs is better.

You will find speed bags are the bane and fantasy of baggers. We love some, hate others. The "best bag" is the one you love on your hands. Lots of bags punch similar, no matter the brand, size or shape, but each does have it's own personality and nuance. Like everything else, overall quality has been sacrificed though the ages for profit. Shapes, materials, sizes, ....all changed on a regular (yearly or two) basis. Cleto's are very high quality but their bag strap could hold king kong in check, and barely fits on most swivels. New bladders do bring them to life. I personally find the Balazs Lazer a very high quality bag but a bit heavy per size and to me it also hits heavy on the hands. I personally hit more Titles lately for they are lighter on the hands and I prefer the more tear drop shaped, ....or having a fatter bag belly more toward the bottom of the bag. Banana shaped bags, (long, narrow) seem to have the belly closer to the middle which I personally don't care for. My hands gravitate more toward the bottom and tend to "slip" off the angled shape.

Why is it so hard to find something that is of high quality, at least inch and a half to two inch real wood board on an easily adjustable platform?

This has been a topic for baggers since I've been under the board, nigh on 44 years. I do know that the boards and workmanship of yesteryear was very high quality, but also very heavy and not made for the home bedroom wall. However you can always make your own wooden rebound surface, and as for adjustment if you don't have a great deal of height to adjust, maybe 5 or 6 inches one way or the other, consider setting the bag at a "constant high height" and use platforms or some other method to quickly raise a the user up to the bag. There are many fitness step products on the market that are easy to use and will allow a shorter user to raise themselves up to a higher bag. This is much easier than having to turn knobs and lower the board.

Is the Deville swivel of good quality? It looks to be cheaply made from the pics I see. But is that the de facto swivel to do tricks?

I this case looks may be deceiving. The Deville ball hook has gone through many transformations from birth to it's present form, and I am lucky (or proud) to have hit on every "new" version. The creator, forum member MsDeville and her man Raul have been very responsive to the suggestions made by myself and several other highly regarded baggers. I can tell you the most recent rendition has been highly pounded for many hours by some of the best in here, and universally it is highly regarded as a very accurate and reactive ball hook swivel, which as you probably know, is the swivel style most regarded for doing "tricks", or more accurately stated as hitting from any and all directions at any speed and the swivel not interfering with the punch flight or angle of rebound. For punching all around, U-bolt swivels seriously suck and chain links are about two shades better but not equal to the simple ballhook design. Rumor has it Ballhooks are not the fastest swivels. Perhaps not but every swivel of any design can always go faster off the fists or foot of another user. I used to think I was pretty fast on a ballhook, then Speedbagskunk hit my bag and melted the swivel!. the metal glowed red! And he still hasn't reached top speed.

So don't fear in purchasing the Deville Ballhook. You will find it probably lives up to what you need. If not, then you might also consider getting another great ballhook, the Swiveltek ltx

I have used two of these personally and IMO it is an awesome swivel. Different feel and sound from the Deville, but awesome non-the-less. If you can spring for both I would suggest you do that and give them both a try.

Finally looking forward to seeing some video of you punching. The first one is the hardest.....

[MDJAK]

Wow, I truly can't thank you enough for parsing through my gibberish and giving me such a complete and thoughtful reply. Very helpful.

If I may:

I love the idea of a platform. I didn't think of that. It would be for my wife. I'm 5'11", she 5'1". She doesn't even want to hit knowing how hard it is to raise and lower the platform. So thank you.

Speed bag shape: I only just noticed that and am glad you pointed it out. The Reyes bag is indeed teardrop shaped. Haven't had a real chance to hit it though as it took a long time and immense effort to screw the Reyes swivel into the maple, only to break a screw and then dislike it.

Swivels: thank you for pointing out the limitations to the U bolt and chain link. I especially dislike the fact there are two pins that have to be bent and removed to change bags, as I now have four bags and do like to change often.

(Btw, I'm typing this on my iPad on the railroad in NY as the passenger next to me has his coffee cup on the seat between us. I hope it doesn't spill.)

Now on to platforms. I love the 2007 or '08 video you made of the model 400 with that counterweight. I want it. I went to their website. Are they still in business? Left them VM and email. Haven't heard back yet. Can't find a place in checkout to apply the member discount.

Thanks again, Alan.

Oh, about that video of me. It may be a bit embarrassing but I'll try. I've uploaded a couple of videos to YouTube over the years of other things but can't seem to figure out how to get good quality. I shoot them with good equipment but when they upload they look terrible. But that's a topic for another forum.
Mark

[mirokiuru]

Hi Mark!

Have you visited your local wood shops for good quality wood? Maybe they could make your very own custom made drum for your speedbag platform. Or if you have right tools you can make it yourself! I hope you find pleasant platform to train whit

-Miro

[MDJAK]

Hi, Miro, and thank you for the suggestion, I actually did consider having one made. There is a custom wood shop near me, in Westchester County, NY called Constantines.

However, as for me making something, that's out. My talents lie elsewhere. I have zero knowledge about carpentry though have always wanted to.

So today I was contacted by primefighting.com and I ordered the model 400. I look forward to receiving it.

[milleniumaire]

Back to Basics

Hi Mark,

I had intended starting a new thread, but then I came across yours and it seems apt to tag what I have to say onto the end of it.

I'm the same as you, only a young lad at not far off 52 , I got into using a speedball at my local leisure centre (that's what we call gyms with swimming pools and squash courts etc. in the UK) about 5 years ago, until they refurbished the place and took the speedball down. Having booked a holiday for July this year I decided to get into better shape and started spending more time at the gym, which is when I had the idea of buying my own speedball platform. I got an adjustable Rebook platform from Amazon.co.uk, which looks very similar to the adjustable Balazs, but these aren't easy to come by in the UK.

I wanted an adjustable platform as my youngest son (the only one of three still living at home) is taller than me and my wife is shorter. Unfortunately, as you have indicated, unscrewing the four bolts and moving the platform isn't easy and as a result it hasn't been adjusted once since it was installed. It is set to my height, so my son makes do with it and my wife refuses to try it - it's too heavy for her to adjust! I suspect I could have saved some cash getting a fixed platform, but I'm not disappointed as it is very solid as you can see from the pictures below.

I've been using my new Rebook adjustable platform for a couple of weeks now and started to dislike the chain link swivel. It is too long so the bag travels a long way, which I feel slows it down. There's also the problem of the bag wearing in the two same places due to the design of the swivel. It also jolts a lot as it doesn't smoothly change direction.

As a result I've just installed a new Deville No 13 ball hook swivel. I know exactly what you mean about it looking cheap due to the "plastic" base. I actually thought this was metal (I got the black one) until it arrived and I was disappointed. Having fitted it, I instantly knew I was going to like it, but it definitely feels like I have to "learn" to hit the ball again as it isn't very forgiving due to it's design - the ball can easily bounce off in any direction if miss-punched. Because of the much shorter link and the ball joint, the ball feels a lot faster and it is soooooo much easier to change speed balls than messing about removing the link on the old chain link swivel.

Time will tell about the quality and solidness of the Deville swivel, which the chain link definitely had. It worries me about the warning on the packaging of the Deville swivel that the base may need to be rotated to avoid over-wearing - this definitely sounds like a limitation of the plastic base.

[Dutchman]

Actually the metal base Everlast ball hooks had the same problem, especially the last two piece ones that they offered before going to the plastic base ball hooks (which they no longer offer).

[MDJAK]

Excellent pics.

I've actually followed Alan's advice and last evening ordered both the Deville swivel and the Swiveltek, though they appear quite similar.

Once I receive the model 400 platform, which they informed me comes in 3 boxes, one containing the 32 pound counterweight, I'll have to figure out how and where to install it.

I want it in my basement as my current setup is. We shall see. I will take pics of it when I receive it.

[Speedbag]

Wow, I truly can't thank you enough for parsing through my gibberish and giving me such a complete and thoughtful reply. Very helpful.

If I may:

I love the idea of a platform. I didn't think of that. It would be for my wife. I'm 5'11", she 5'1". She doesn't even want to hit knowing how hard it is to raise and lower the platform. So thank you.

Speed bag shape: I only just noticed that and am glad you pointed it out. The Reyes bag is indeed teardrop shaped. Haven't had a real chance to hit it though as it took a long time and immense effort to screw the Reyes swivel into the maple, only to break a screw and then dislike it.

Swivels: thank you for pointing out the limitations to the U bolt and chain link. I especially dislike the fact there are two pins that have to be bent and removed to change bags, as I now have four bags and do like to change often.

(Btw, I'm typing this on my iPad on the railroad in NY as the passenger next to me has his coffee cup on the seat between us. I hope it doesn't spill.)

Now on to platforms. I love the 2007 or '08 video you made of the model 400 with that counterweight. I want it. I went to their website. Are they still in business? Left them VM and email. Haven't heard back yet. Can't find a place in checkout to apply the member discount.

Thanks again, Alan.

Oh, about that video of me. It may be a bit embarrassing but I'll try. I've uploaded a couple of videos to YouTube over the years of other things but can't seem to figure out how to get good quality. I shoot them with good equipment but when they upload they look terrible. But that's a topic for another forum.
Mark

In that video I was hitting the Primefighter sports model 400, custom made by Randy Ray and friends in Noel Missouri. I visited their factory in 2003 and you can see that here, scroll down the page about 3/4 to the bottom. http://www.speedbagcentral.com/ssp/special_people



That particular design, (the one I have) has a rather large hole in the front of the board which allows the user to add a tip bracket to hold a heavy bag. Ideally could raise the board up to it's highest level and hang the heavy bag from it, BUT it will hang close to the front of the board, putting all the weight of the bag at the furthest point from the wall. I did not want to subject that meager bedroom wall to another 75 or 100 pounds hanging from it, so I never used it. You could also hang a double end bag from it, tied to a dumbell weight on the floor I suppose. Primefighter could "customize" the length of the vertical tubes that the board slides on, so the overall adjustment length is variable.

The other issue with that model 400 board is the counter balance weight that makes adjust of the board VERY easy. But you still have to unscrew the four large knobs. I suggest starting with the upper two, then the lowers. The 35 pound counter weight, if you leave it hanging, will naturally start pulling the board upwards, so be aware of that. After it is at the height I want I tighten the lower knobs first, then reach up to do the uppers.

But notice how I had to hang this wall unit To hold the weight of the unit AND the 35 pound counter weight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXG5ckFW1B

I did not use the option for the 24 inch stud centers, but chose the wider option. I also built a large wooden frame so I could actually attach a top horizontal 2x4 and then rest the top horizontal bar of the frame on that 2x4. In fact, the wall unit could hang off that. I did that to relieve some of the stress on the lag bolts and studs. In truth the 3 studs in that area of the wall have all had various assaults in the past from lag bolts holding different board. (I fear one is now "split" and needs to be replaced - ahh! )

This was a great wall unit for a few years because my wife of 5 feet and "little grand kids" were hitting the bag bag then, so the large, easy adjustment travel was handy, but lately not so much. My grand children did not refuse to age, and as teens have surpassed my height along with the discovery of cellphones to occupy their time in this house. My wife has discovered the recliner in the living room with an IPAD of her own. Speed bag has always been my addiction, not hers. So the board no longer needs to be adjusted much at all. Years ago I did have people coming over for lessons, but no longer.
To relieve the weight on the wall I have made a stand to set the 35 pound counter weight on, for I don't really need its weight hanging on the wall continuously but I suspect the horizontal 2x4 brace takes most of that. Most of my bag size adjustments would be from a 10x7, 9x6 or 8x5 and I can easily manage that without moving the board. My own time under that board has also been reduced so I rarely change bags at all. My 40+ speed bags just lay around, play cards and tell tall tales of rebounds past.

But....when you look at that bedroom wall, it's a pretty knarly mess. Our family really needs that bedroom back with a better "look" so I may have to take all that down, replace the wall studs (with 4x4) and start over. I would not hang this particular unit back up simply because it requires so much wall space to hang in a normal size bedroom, it's heavy and I do not need much adjustment at all anymore. I also have two functional wall units hung in my garage from many years ago.
At this moment I would personally replace it with an I-box for I've hit them enough to know it suits all my personal needs and has a very nice "wall presentation". I've seen homes with an Ibox in the living room. (I personally would not hang the 400 in a living room.)

[MDJAK]

Thanks again, Alan, for your full review of the model 400.

I'm placing it in my basement when it gets here so no worries about bedroom mess.

Are you saying you are slacking these days?

Oh, my wife lives on her iPad (now Pro model) on the couch also. She does swim every morning at a great facility called Chelsea Pier in Stamford, Ct., Olympic size pool, and trains with a trainer twice per week so she stays in shape. But at home, I'm basically on my own. I've told her the iBox platform is now hers. When I get the 400, that is.

[Speedbag]

Thanks again, Alan, for your full review of the model 400.

I'm placing it in my basement when it gets here so no worries about bedroom mess.

Are you saying you are slacking these days?

Sad to say, that is affirmative.

Oh, my wife lives on her iPad (now Pro model) on the couch also. She does swim every morning at a great facility called Chelsea Pier in Stamford, Ct., Olympic size pool, and trains with a trainer twice per week so she stays in shape. But at home, I'm basically on my own. I've told her the iBox platform is now hers. When I get the 400, that is.

Mine too, large Pro model iPad and comfy recliner. My wife doesn't swim. She still runs occasionally but it's not too far to the refrigerator and back.

[MDJAK]

Alan, sorry to go OT. Don't know if it's okay to start a new thread as it may already exist.

I ordered the movie posters and the DVD Art of the Bag. Just got done watching the DVD. Absolutely fantastic. My highest recommendation. I had no idea what to expect and it was great. Thank you.

As for the posters, very cool but mine came damaged. The cardboard poster roll they are contained in must have met its match with the post office.

I can't figure out who or how to contact anyone to ask if they will replace them. When I hit the "contact us" it just tries to go to an email program that's not set up on my computer and so I can't send one as the address itself is not there, at least I don't see it.


Thank you. Going right down to my basement to practice that elbow technique.

BTW, did I mention speed bag platforms (actually a 10 pound sandbag) hit back?

As I was punching, all of a sudden I was hit on the bridge of the nose, glasses sent flying, nose cut. I thought the entire platform came down but alas it was just the sandbag. I now have it tied up.

[Speedbag]

Alan, sorry to go OT. Don't know if it's okay to start a new thread as it may already exist.

I ordered the movie posters and the DVD Art of the Bag. Just got done watching the DVD. Absolutely fantastic. My highest recommendation. I had no idea what to expect and it was great. Thank you.

As for the posters, very cool but mine came damaged. The cardboard poster roll they are contained in must have met its match with the post office.

I can't figure out who or how to contact anyone to ask if they will replace them. When I hit the "contact us" it just tries to go to an email program that's not set up on my computer and so I can't send one as the address itself is not there, at least I don't see it.

If you are talking about contacting the creator of the ART of the Bag poster then that would be the amazing forum member... ZaZa

http://www.speedbagforum.com/forums/member.php?u=1661

Everything about that documentary is his. You could probably send him a PM via this forum.

BTW, did I mention speed bag platforms (actually a 10 pound sandbag) hit back?

As I was punching, all of a sudden I was hit on the bridge of the nose, glasses sent flying, nose cut. I thought the entire platform came down but alas it was just the sandbag. I now have it tied up.

Ouch Things on top of the board tend to roll or fall off if unsecured. It's happened to the best of us. Lesson Learned.

[paranday]

She still runs occasionally but it's not too far to the refrigerator and back.

To fetch your beer? Shameful, shameful, shameful.

[MDJAK]

I received the Deville swivel. I'm dying to use it but am waiting for the model 400 to arrive. I don't want to take off the swivel from my Balazs platform to just try it out because drilling and screwing is a pain.

This Deville is either going to make me better or show me how much I suck. Time will tell.