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  #11  
Old 10-13-2006, 02:55 PM
Chris M Chris M is offline
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Is there a trick to a 90 degree change in direction i.e. from a front punch to side?
The only "trick" that there is to it is making sure you hit with your fists in the correct order. You have to hit in correct order in order to make sure your hands are free to do the follow up punch. You kind of have to think a punch or two ahead in order to do this technique. Also, as stated above, I was doing my second punch in the FDP as a FCP instead of a FSP. That made it easier for me to follow through to the RSP because of body position and setup for the next punch.
  #12  
Old 10-13-2006, 04:51 PM
BillyMack BillyMack is offline
 
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I'm having a hard time visualising this 6-count technique. Can someone post a video or a diagram?
  #13  
Old 10-13-2006, 04:54 PM
JimR JimR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris M View Post
To get an idea of what I'm talking about, do a double punch, but instead of doing your second punch as a FCP or FSP, do it as a hook punch with no bounce in between each hit.

To use your analogy, you do a double punch, both to the north, then one side punch towards the west, then a double punch from the south, then a side punch towards the east. There is no rebound in between each of these hits, when done correctly, it will sound like a six count fist roll.
Thanks, Chris, I'll keep plugging away at it then.

BTW, you mean ONE rebound in between each hit, right?

Quote:
R-L (FDP) ' R-(SSP) ' L-R (RDP) ' L-(SSP) ' R-L (RDP) ' R-(SSP)...repeat.
Because of the nature of the right-angle changes, I would start with 3, then 2, then 1 rebound in between.

Jim
  #14  
Old 10-13-2006, 06:31 PM
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Super Advanced Combo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris M View Post
...To use your analogy, you do a double punch, both to the north, then one side punch towards the west, then a double punch from the south, then a side punch towards the east. There is no rebound in between each of these hits, when done correctly, it will sound like a six count fist roll.
Actually, this description of punch direction is exactly correct, except I believe that "NO rebound" should be ONE rebound. Do these with 3 rebounds to get the movements first.

JimR: The Right Fist angle change of direction in R-L (FDP) ' R-(SSP) is Slight, but subtle. It is not a hard, violent angle change.
It is very similiar to Doing a FSP ' ' RSP, but instead of passing through and punching back at your nose from behind the bag, just let the Right Fist drift through more to the side, and then come into the rear-side of the bag. You just need the bag to go a bit sideways to make it work.

It also helps to use the FSP position for the second fist of the FDP. This second fist alignment (remember: the fists move together as one motion) more or less forces the lead fist to follow the angle plane set by the second fist. A FCP goes more direct OUT from the chest. The FSP travels INWARD, and as the LEFT fist travels inward (the 2nd fist in the example), it will also force the lead fist to go in that general direction, which is heading more toward the SIDE of the bag then the rear. Concerning the FDP, Notice how a FCP ' FCP fist position creates a much different angle of fist entry, and angle of bag rebound - than a FCP ' FSP (* check the last sentence of Rule of Rhythm #3). Using the FSP position for the 2nd Fist varies the fist angle or entry, which creates the proper angle of rebound needed to make this work.

A tip might be to split the combo up and examine ONLY the fist change. If you use the FSP fist position for the 2nd Fist of your FDP (which I recommend in this combo..), then here is what you are left with: L-FSP ' R-SSP
Now that is a little difficult, so bump the rebounds to the next highest odd number (1,3) L-FSP ' ' ' R-SSP and the combo becomes much easier. To get the full effect, extend your right arm out slightly so the fist is kind of on the side of the bag. Do a Left-FSP ' ' ' Right-SSP, and drag the right fist slightly from the shoulder, moving it more sideways horizontal across your chest. For a reverse single, and a "normal" side single punch, you swing more from the elbow, hinging back at yourself, but at the advanced level you begin altering things. Here you are altering your arm movement to "drag" the fist slightly sideways. IN practice you will find the fist will stop at about your nose or under your left eye, then go to the next position (wherever that is..)

So, but making a few alterations, (1) Empasizing the fist direction of a 2nd Fist FSP in the Front Double, (which gets your lead fist to the side) and (2) Dragging your side fist back slightly across your chest. [ you can practice this dragging motion by doing a
Side-to-Side Spit Fist combo: L-SSP ' ' R-SSP. To do this and get the bag angle correct, you need to drag the fist sideways across your chest and you do it from the shoulder. ] See the book, page 76 at the bottom.

One more point. The Side Single Punch (SSP) is one of THE KEY to all the Super Advanced combinations. If you look through Chapter 9, Side techniques, (exercise 8, page 78) you will see the SSP follows the FSP after 2 rebounds! L-(FSP) ' ' R-(SSP) In fact, that is the most natural combo (at least to me). Later in the Advanced chapter (10), page 145 in the super advanced section, I begin by moving the FSP ' ' SSP from two rebounds to ONE rebound. If it can do 1, it can do 3, So now, the SSP can follow a FDP on 1,2 or 3 rebounds!

Try it: the below all repeat themselves

R-L (FSP) ' ' ' R-(SSP) ' ' ...repeat

R-L (FSP) ' ' R-(SSP) ' ' ...repeat

R-L (FSP) ' R-(SSP) ' ' ...repeat

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

For those of you who are crossing your eyes at the above explanations and examples - Do not fear. IF you have worked through most of the practice exercises in the book, (which are layed out in a very specific sequence and order of technique introduction..) Than by the time you get to the advanced and super advanced topics, it will make a lot more sense. It is extremely difficult and confusing to put on paper what happens so quickly on the bag. That is why I normally emphasize not "jumping ahead". Even using the DVD samples, it is still hard to use that as a reference tool when typing in a forum. The book, with it's much more detailed explanations, is really important at this level.

To those of you actually trying this, Good Luck and keep the faith. You will eventually get it.
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  #15  
Old 10-15-2006, 04:47 PM
JimR JimR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedbag View Post
JimR: The Right Fist angle change of direction in R-L (FDP) ' R-(SSP) is Slight, but subtle. It is not a hard, violent angle change.
It is very similiar to Doing a FSP ' ' RSP, but instead of passing through and punching back at your nose from behind the bag, just let the Right Fist drift through more to the side, and then come into the rear-side of the bag. You just need the bag to go a bit sideways to make it work.
Thanks very much for the detailed answer, Alan. I just have to ask more specifically what you mean by "not a hard, violent angle change" and "a bit sideways"? They imply to me that maybe my original question had the right premise - not a 90 degree change from North-South to East-West but some other angle.

Thanks,
Jim
  #16  
Old 10-15-2006, 08:41 PM
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Fist Angle on advanced combo

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimR View Post
Thanks very much for the detailed answer, Alan. I just have to ask more specifically what you mean by "not a hard, violent angle change" and "a bit sideways"? They imply to me that maybe my original question had the right premise - not a 90 degree change from North-South to East-West but some other angle.

Thanks,
Jim
Exactly. Here is a visual cue:

Line the bag up so the laces are directly in front. the laces usually splits two bag panels, so you are looking at the two front panels of the bag. Just on the right hand side, is the "front-Side" panel.

Your lead fist of the FDP will contact the front panel, drift to the side, and come in quickly to contact that front-Side panel. Notice from the side there are also two panels: a Front-Side and a Rear-Side. If your fist "drags" in from the side, it will most likely contact that front-side panel close to the middle. I won't matter exactly where on the side it contacts,for as long as the bag goes in a general side direction it will work - because it sets the bag at the correct angle for the coming RSP.

If that doesn't work, just practice SSP's. A SSP follows a FSP easily on two rebounds. Just do the same movement, but time it for ONE rebound. ( you won't be able to get you hand out too far to the side of the bag to do this) In fact, on a 24 inch wide board you fist will not go past the boards edge.
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