newb looking for help

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  • Matthew049
    Speed Bag Trainee
    • Jan 2013
    • 8

    newb looking for help

    ive found that there is a lot of info on speed bags out there but ive found different answers to my questions which leads me here.

    first of all, im 43 and looking to get a good speed bag(s) and platform because i think mastering the speed bag would be a great challenge, it looks cool, and mostly because it seems fun. problems/questions i have are:

    1. the platform: i keep coming back to the valor CA-53 2" platform. i like it cuz it is thick (2") and looks ez to adjust by the crank of the wheel as opposed to some that require 4 screws to be loosened and then tightened. does anyone have any info on whether this is a solid platform??
    Improve hand speed, hand-eye coordination, timing, punch power, and shoulder endurance with our adjustable Speed Bag Platform. Includes a lightweight, 10” speed bag.


    2. the bag: i had planned to start with is the Title size 10 (10"x12") XL bag and slowly work my way down. but i see everyone recommending a 7"x10" bag for newbies but im not sure why(???). i recently came across the Balazs Lazer bag and was thinking maybe to start with their largest bag (8x11) and work my way down with that series. since they all look very much the same i figured when it's time to move to a smaller bag it will be easier to stay in the same series of bags figuring they will have a similar feel, etc.

    3. my biggest problem/question: Balazs website says that their 24" platform will accommodate bags up to 10x12". however, speedbagcentral.com says an 8x11 bag will come to the edge of a 24" platform and that larger boards should be used for that and larger bags. im concerned i'll get a platform and it will be too small for a newb like me that wants to use larger bags.

    link: http://www.speedbagcentral.com/ssp/speed_bag_parts

    which is correct??? also, the valor platform is 23" not 24". will that make a difference if i decide to get an 8x11" bag? will it fit a 24" platform but not 23"??

    4. alternative platform: if the 23" is too small for an 8x11 and 10x12 bag my next choice was the Balazs 12" adjustable platform with a 30" drum. it's more than double the price of the Valor ($325 vs $729) so you can see my predicament. altho, it looks the exact same as the Title 30" drum platform that Title is selling for $999.

    Balasz link: http://www.balazsboxing.com/cgi-bin/...age=gear|speed bag platforms|ms0197

    as you can see these are pretty specific questions that i was unable to find answers to so i appreciate any thoughts/comments.
  • Matthew049
    Speed Bag Trainee
    • Jan 2013
    • 8

    #2
    ahh, real world experience.. exactly what i was hoping to hear. thank you!
    that settles it, i'll definitely get a 30" drum which looks like it will be the Balazs.

    thx for the tip on the bags. my understanding of the bags, if i have this right, the larger the bag the slower and easier to control with a larger sweet spot. i thought the large bags were considered the "beginner" bags. i was looking to start w the easiest (largest?) bag, master it, then move to the next size down, etc. if starting in the middle is a better way to go then im certainly open to that too.

    Comment

    • Speedbag
      Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

      • Feb 2006
      • 7109

      #3
      Originally posted by Matthew049 View Post
      ive found that there is a lot of info on speed bags out there but ive found different answers to my questions which leads me here.
      Hi Matthew. Yes there is a lot of information "out there" but you'll find the most reliable information about speed bag equipment and it's use on this forum. Glad you found us...!

      Originally posted by Matthew049 View Post
      3. my biggest problem/question: Balazs website says that their 24" platform will accommodate bags up to 10x12". however, speedbagcentral.com says an 8x11 bag will come to the edge of a 24" platform and that larger boards should be used for that and larger bags. im concerned i'll get a platform and it will be too small for a newb like me that wants to use larger bags.

      link: http://www.speedbagcentral.com/ssp/speed_bag_parts

      which is correct??? also, the valor platform is 23" not 24". will that make a difference if i decide to get an 8x11" bag? will it fit a 24" platform but not 23"??
      You may find this hard to believe, but the answer is that "both" could be right. The relationship between a large bag and smaller board is not as clear cut as you might think, and it could really depend on the exact size and exact shape of the bag, as well as the swivel you use. Yes my website speedbagcentral.com shows the end of a larger 11x8 bag (everlast 4210) going slight past the edge of a 24 inch board. And I generally think this is bad for it can really rattle a cheaper light weight board and perhaps damage the bag if it creases constantly over the board edge, but in fact if you look close you will notice that the belly of the bag will actually contact the board about an inch before the edge. I have used that bag with that board hundreds of times in the past without problems and I posted that mainly to make people aware of bag and board size relationships. As for the Balazs size and statements, it is completely possible that the belly of the bag in question will also contact the board inside (not on) the edge, even if the very end of the bag goes a bit past the edge. It may not effect the action of the bag or board at all. However, if you had a longer chainlink or u-bolt swivel it may add enough length to the bag rebound arc to put the belly on the boards edge, and that would not be recommended. (Yes, swivel length effects the rebound arc of the bag)

      Originally posted by Matthew049 View Post
      4. alternative platform: if the 23" is too small for an 8x11 and 10x12 bag my next choice was the Balazs 12" adjustable platform with a 30" drum. it's more than double the price of the Valor ($325 vs $729) so you can see my predicament. altho, it looks the exact same as the Title 30" drum platform that Title is selling for $999.

      Balasz link: http://www.balazsboxing.com/cgi-bin/...age=gear|speed bag platforms|ms0197

      as you can see these are pretty specific questions that i was unable to find answers to so i appreciate any thoughts/comments.
      There is NO need to spend $700 - $900 on a home based speed bag wall unit. You will do fine with the Balazs I-box
      or the Valor CA-532 model or the Titleboxing model. The main thing to consider is the wall you plan to hang it on, for some require a larger space than others. The boards will work fine for the bag you really need.

      I agree with ventanakaz about the bag size. You should do fine with the 10x7 to start. If needed you can leave it a bit "flat" by using a bit less air. this will make it a bit slower if needed. In a few workouts you may progress to fully aired up, and then it may seem a slow and you're ready for a faster bag. So you can go to an 9x6. If that's a bit too hard to control fully aired, use it a bit flat. These bag sizes will fit fine on the boards listed.

      Hope this helps.

      Speed Bag

      Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
      *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
      The Quest Continues...
      Hoping for another Gathering...


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      The Art of the Bag

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      • Matthew049
        Speed Bag Trainee
        • Jan 2013
        • 8

        #4
        first of all, thank you gentleman so much for sharing your knowledge w me. indeed it is greatly appreciated!

        i see now why i couldnt find specific answers to my questions online. the answers were not simple yes/no answers. haha.

        apparently i was looking at bag sizes the wrong way. my understanding was bigger=beginner and smaller=expert but it seems this isnt the way that it should be thought of. that leads me to my next question. are the XL (8x11 and 10x12) bags considered to be more specialty type of bags that are used by intermediate/advanced baggers for building strength and endurance?

        thx again!

        Comment

        • Speedbag
          Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

          • Feb 2006
          • 7109

          #5
          Originally posted by Matthew049 View Post
          first of all, thank you gentleman so much for sharing your knowledge w me. indeed it is greatly appreciated!

          i see now why i couldnt find specific answers to my questions online. the answers were not simple yes/no answers. haha.

          apparently i was looking at bag sizes the wrong way. my understanding was bigger=beginner and smaller=expert but it seems this isnt the way that it should be thought of. that leads me to my next question. are the XL (8x11 and 10x12) bags considered to be more specialty type of bags that are used by intermediate/advanced baggers for building strength and endurance?

          thx again!
          Yes, that would be one reason to have them. Many experienced baggers do exactly that, using the larger bags for strength and/or endurance. Also many beginners also use them as "starter" bags due to slowness and the larger sweet spot for contact.

          Your first assumption (my understanding was bigger=beginner and smaller=expert) is "generally correct", however it can also depend on the individual users experience and knowledge to adapt or modify the next size bag ( by air pressure) up or down to make it work for them.

          There are really no hard and fast rules in concrete about that, except

          "any bag is better than no bag"

          that rule still stands IMO.
          Last edited by Speedbag; 01-21-2013, 02:08 AM.
          Speed Bag

          Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
          *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
          The Quest Continues...
          Hoping for another Gathering...


          sigpic

          The Art of the Bag

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          • AtTheCross
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2012
            • 100

            #6
            Originally posted by Speedbag View Post

            "any bag is better than no bag"
            100% agree!!!
            1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

            XMarkfitness platform
            Active Bags: - N.O.S. Ringside 4x7 - N.O.S. Ringside Tear Drop 5x8 - Balazs Lazer 6x9
            DevilleSwivel No.13 - Horizontal
            Powermill Evil Swivel - Vertical (to be installed)
            Retired Bags:
            Pro Mex 5x8 - Everlast 4214 7x10

            Comment

            • Matthew049
              Speed Bag Trainee
              • Jan 2013
              • 8

              #7
              thanks again ventanakaz and speedbag for taking the time to share your wisdom w me. based on what i learned here, here's what i did:

              i went ahead and ordered the Valor CA-53 from fitnessgearusa.com. they were selling it for 5% off. altho, im not quite sure if it's available yet. valor doesnt have it for sale yet on their website. i'll have to wait and see. i also orderd an extra swivel to make changing bags easier, that was also 5% off. the valor model is a little pricier than some equivalent models but the adjustment mechanism they use made it worth it to me.

              the valor comes w a bag but doesnt say the size and i question the quality when the bag is included so i ordered a couple bags. i did get a 7x10 Balazs Lazer bag and, to make myself feel better, also an 8x11. haha. so that gives me a couple good starting points to begin with. thx again and i'll keep you updated!

              oh, btw, i checked out the Art of the Bag donation page and was disappointed i was unable to donate. i would gladly donate $10 as the info i have received here was worth much more than that to me. if it's still possible to donate in some way let me know. :thumbsup:

              Comment

              • Speedbag
                Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                • Feb 2006
                • 7109

                #8
                Originally posted by ventanakaz
                i used to think the bigger bags were for beginners and i always think outside the box but since i haven't been baggin for some years that box closed in on my thinking. there was a thread on here somewhere saying (i use the bigger bags for my power work outs) and my responce was (if i want to work on power i'll go hit my heavy bag dummy or my mook jong) i think it might have been parandy or dutchman that said that, i don't remember but i was wrong about the big bags they are not only for beginners but can also be used for power workouts. reading more threads and seeing some vids on youtube like one where raul is doing a fourway workout on a big cleto bag, i gave it a try and liked it, then took it to the next level with my power hitting on the bigger bag by putting my hips into my elbows, (you have to have good footwork and the power comes from the ground through your feet and legs, using your hips to put all that force through the tips of your elbows and follow all the way through. this is a good workout for combat or if you get into a street fight and are at close range where you can use a headbutt, knees and elbows and such...ralph
                I also suggest to back away from the bag a bit to increase power work. when we stand close to the bag for "normal" punching from all sides, we hit the front of the bag with a deep bend in the elbow. Good for repetitive speed bag not much power compared to a fully extended punch. Back away from the bag and put the contact point at almost full extension of your arm. This will deliver near your full punch power to the bag. A small "fast" bag will quickly race off at this force, but if you use a larger, heavier speed bag (which is slower) you will be able to pound at full power in the triplet rhythm for a great power/strength work out. Big Bags are excellent for this, But you really need a solid board to handle the force of rebounds.
                Speed Bag

                Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                The Quest Continues...
                Hoping for another Gathering...


                sigpic

                The Art of the Bag

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                • Biff
                  Speed Bag Wizard

                  • Feb 2008
                  • 1190

                  #9
                  Originally posted by ventanakaz
                  ...yap thats pretty much what i do when i'm in boxing range, i step back and throw boxing combos on the bag. i do this in both stances and train for both leading hands. i'm a righty and a lefty...ralph
                  I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous.

                  Comment

                  • Speedbag
                    Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                    • Feb 2006
                    • 7109

                    #10
                    Originally posted by ventanakaz
                    ...yap thats pretty much what i do when i'm in boxing range, i step back and throw boxing combos on the bag. i do this in both stances and train for both leading hands. i'm a righty and a lefty...ralph
                    Me too. Hold over from my martial art days, doing drills with either foot and arm forward.


                    Originally posted by Biff View Post
                    I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous.
                    Well, at least your Bilateral, so that's gotta account for something.
                    Speed Bag

                    Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                    *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                    The Quest Continues...
                    Hoping for another Gathering...


                    sigpic

                    The Art of the Bag

                    Comment

                    • Matthew049
                      Speed Bag Trainee
                      • Jan 2013
                      • 8

                      #11
                      got my platform set up. i ended up going w the valor ca-53. i would've preferred the first rate boxing platform but in the end it was just too much $.
                      i think i see now why the 8x11 is not necessarily the best bag to start with. to get it going fast (after you've learned the basic rhythm) you gotta hit it pretty hard and that makes it harder to control it seems. so it didnt take me long to move to the 7x10.

                      my question now is, im not sure what to do about the chain link swivel. a boxer buddy said im probably going to wanna get rid of it and get a pro swivel. i have the rhythm down going faster but have a difficult time controlling it with this swivel. so i ordered a pro swivel off amazon. but......... i was at a buddy's gym today and was working his speedbags. they have 2 platforms, one w a 6x9 bag and one w a 5x8. they both have a chain link swivel and i was wacking those things fast and didnt have any problem controlling them. i was like WTF??? i dont understand the difference. any suggestions??? i duct taped my current swivel so it wouldnt be so hard to control and i can just concentrate on the hitting, is that cheating???

                      thanks for your help!!!!!
                      Attached Files

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                      • Jollygood49
                        Member
                        • Jan 2013
                        • 96

                        #12
                        Hey Matthew, welcome to the forum! I think you made a good choice moving on to the 7x10. That's the size bag I'm currently smacking around and agree it's great for power, endurance, and an overall good shoulder workout. Also, even with it's larger, in comparison to others, size a person can really get it moving.

                        As for swivels, I would recommend contacting JumpCannon or MsDeville for one of their finely crafted swivels. I own and am incredibly happy with my Powermill from JumpCannon. I don't currently (but will soon enough) own a Deville swivel and have heard nothing but good things about both of those. I would recommend one of those over anything else because it sounds as though you'll want a good ball-hook when the time comes for side punches and others which abruptly change bag direction. I also have an Everlast plastic ball-hook swivel which can be bought for $7, but in comparison to the Powermill, the Everlast is quite slow.

                        Comment

                        • Dutchman
                          Speed Bag Historian
                          • Jun 2006
                          • 1903

                          #13
                          You can keep a bag moving much easier with either the "U" bar or roller chain swivel. This is because because of the geometry of them they limit the action of the bag. The swivel of preference here is the referred to as the "ball hook" swivel. It allows the user to hit and control the bag from all sides and angles without having to slow down or stop. You develop a higher skill level to do this, it takes a little time to achieve this. Patience is the rule in this case, relax and enjoy the experience, as it will come to you in due time.

                          Comment

                          • Matthew049
                            Speed Bag Trainee
                            • Jan 2013
                            • 8

                            #14
                            ok, my new speed bags came in. Balazs Lazer bags 6x9 and 5x8. im using the chain link swivel with them and im whacking the crap out of the bags and they seems to be staying pretty well controlled. so the chain link swivel seems to work ok with my 8x11 bag and my new small ones. it's only the 7x10 bag it doesnt work well with. so i dunno. maybe i'll stick w them a little longer.

                            Comment

                            • Matthew049
                              Speed Bag Trainee
                              • Jan 2013
                              • 8

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ventanakaz
                              ...what brand is your 8x11 and 7x10 bags ?...ralph
                              all Balazs lazer bags

                              Comment

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