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  #1  
Old 06-11-2007, 09:18 AM
BoxingGranny BoxingGranny is offline
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Frequency and length of workout

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and relatively new to the speed bag, too, so I'm looking for advice and tips from those in the know.

I've been working out with the bag for about 3 weeks now. I've worked up to doing between 60 and 70 minutes a session (with water breaks, so I guess maybe 55 to 65 minutes actually hitting the bag), 6 days a week. My son says that's way too much, and I should take a day off between each workout. (Forgot to mention, I'm a 58 year old female with some 25 lbs. of fat to burn.) My main goal is to develop some upper body and back strength, and replace some of this fat with toned muscle. My muscles definitely get sore from the workouts, but nothing I'd call real pain - just enough to let me know I really worked them. Am I overdoing it?

Last week I tried backing away from the bag and throwing long punches from the shoulder, and now that I can keep a decent rhythm going, I'm enjoying it much more than hitting the bag in close, and I'm really feeling it in my back.

I'd appreciate your advice on what makes up a well rounded bag routine, and any tips that would help a woman old enough to remember the Friday Night Fights on the Gillette Cavalcade of Sports.

Thanks!!
  #2  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:01 AM
SupergeZ SupergeZ is offline
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welcome to the forum boxing granny!

i think alans that guy for this one! his username is speedbag and will be able to tell you everything you need to know
  #3  
Old 06-11-2007, 11:04 AM
BillyMack BillyMack is offline
 
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Hi Granny-
Welcome, and Kudos for taking action at your seasoned stage in life. I'll give my 2 cents.

I wouldn't necessarily say you are overdoing it, but I think you can get a better or equal workout in less time. You do this by stepping up the intensity of your workouts. Everyone has to be careful and train safe but at your age you might have some real concerns like bone loss/osteoperosis, etc, so you are wise to take it slow and easy.

There are several ways to step up the intensity: you can punch faster, you can add resistance, or you can do hit the bag in intervals adding in other activities. The latter is my favorite combination with the speed bag.

What else can you do in besides the speed bag? Do you have a heavy bag? A pull up bar? A medicine ball? Maybe a resistance band? Even a couple minutes of step aerobics in between speed bag rounds would add some intensity. Are you fit enough for pushups?

It's really hard to get a great workout on the speed bag alone, but it can be done....good job to you so far!!
  #4  
Old 06-11-2007, 11:33 AM
Chris M Chris M is offline
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What size is your bag?

Since your goal is to gain strength, I'm thinking you want to hit a larger heavier bag.

I love my Title 10x12 bag which is a great bag for longer workouts because it is slower and it's pretty heavy. It's the blue one towards the bottom of the page. http://store.titleboxing.com/titlespeedbags1.html Hey, they're on sale now too! Title bags are very good quality, as good as or better than most others out there on the market and you sure can't beat the price!

And yes, you do want to alternate days for working specific muscles in order to give them a chance to recover. I can't tell you the scientific reason for why, but it's something I've been told my entire life when I first started lifting weights until I was in the Army. I attended a Master Physical Fitness Trainer course in about 1992 and it was recommended to do varying exercises each day so as to gain maximum benefit. I'd recommend you do some light jogging or perhaps even swimming or bike riding to target different muscle groups on the days that you are not hitting the bag.

Last edited by Chris M; 06-11-2007 at 02:52 PM.
  #5  
Old 06-11-2007, 02:12 PM
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metaldad metaldad is offline
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Welcome Granny!! You've come to the right place!! There are some really cool knowledgeable folks here who will help you out.Sit back enjoy and as my idol Bruce Lee always said "Absorb what is useful" Good Luck
  #6  
Old 06-11-2007, 08:22 PM
BoxingGranny BoxingGranny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMack View Post
Hi Granny-
Welcome, and Kudos for taking action at your seasoned stage in life. I'll give my 2 cents.

I wouldn't necessarily say you are overdoing it, but I think you can get a better or equal workout in less time. You do this by stepping up the intensity of your workouts. Everyone has to be careful and train safe but at your age you might have some real concerns like bone loss/osteoperosis, etc, so you are wise to take it slow and easy.

There are several ways to step up the intensity: you can punch faster, you can add resistance, or you can do hit the bag in intervals adding in other activities. The latter is my favorite combination with the speed bag.

What else can you do in besides the speed bag? Do you have a heavy bag? A pull up bar? A medicine ball? Maybe a resistance band? Even a couple minutes of step aerobics in between speed bag rounds would add some intensity. Are you fit enough for pushups?

It's really hard to get a great workout on the speed bag alone, but it can be done....good job to you so far!!
Hi Billy,

Thanks for the tips! I did get a heavy bag as well, but I'm not sure about technique for working the heavy bag, and I don't want to dive in before I know what I'm doing with it. I do have a pair of Everlast 12 oz. gloves for it when I'm ready to try it out.

Know of a website with slo-mo of heavy bag work?

I also have a travel size stair stepper. I saw the video of Alan working the speed bag while riding the stationary bike. Maybe I could use the stairstepper the same way to increase the intensity?

Thanks again,
Bobbi
  #7  
Old 06-11-2007, 08:30 PM
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Speedbag Speedbag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGranny View Post
Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and relatively new to the speed bag, too, so I'm looking for advice and tips from those in the know.

I've been working out with the bag for about 3 weeks now. I've worked up to doing between 60 and 70 minutes a session (with water breaks, so I guess maybe 55 to 65 minutes actually hitting the bag), 6 days a week. My son says that's way too much, and I should take a day off between each workout. (Forgot to mention, I'm a 58 year old female with some 25 lbs. of fat to burn.) My main goal is to develop some upper body and back strength, and replace some of this fat with toned muscle. My muscles definitely get sore from the workouts, but nothing I'd call real pain - just enough to let me know I really worked them. Am I overdoing it?

Last week I tried backing away from the bag and throwing long punches from the shoulder, and now that I can keep a decent rhythm going, I'm enjoying it much more than hitting the bag in close, and I'm really feeling it in my back.

I'd appreciate your advice on what makes up a well rounded bag routine, and any tips that would help a woman old enough to remember the Friday Night Fights on the Gillette Cavalcade of Sports.

Thanks!!
Well, I'm certainly old enough to remember Friday Nights on the Gillette Cavalcade of Sports.....

You're workout sounds very aggressive at first, but the fact that your "hitting the bag" doesn't really tell the whole story.

that's because I believe there are three general workout levels on the speed bag. First, is "learning speed", or hitting very easy, working on new skills, techniques or combinations. This usually has a lot of breakdowns, stop and starts etc. You might get some shoulder/tricep burn from this for short periods, but the low force and slow movement doesn't do much physically. You seldom go over 1/2 speed when doing this, and 50 - 60 minutes at this level is not to tough to do.

The second level is a little more aggressive than the first, for here you start using the techniques and combinations you know and start doing them faster. Hitting harder on a larger bag, or maybe faster on a smaller bag, but you can continue to do the combo's and keep punching for up to 3/4 speed for pretty long periods (1 - 2 minutes or more). Normally, I would think about 20-30 minutes at this level will make most pretty tired. Hopefully, they are doing some more than just the basic rhythm, for that would get pretty boring. Learning new tech & combo's (at stage 1) adds variety. The speed bag fanatic (guilty here....) will continue long past this point, but for the general fitness crowd or club workout, this is usually it.

The third and final level is FULL speed, which is whatever force and bag you can use to go all out, for as long as you can, (or your time interval), which usually isn't very long. This is punching just at the limit of being out of control (for someone still learning...) and to the limits of the bag and swing mechanics for the more advanced. As Chris points out, a larger bag will build strength, and go slower at full force punching - which will help a newbie trying to go fast.

I think most people gravitate between all three levels within most workouts, trying to going fast for short periods, then dropping down to lower force and speeds - without giving much thought to how long they are going at any particular level. Beginners stay at the lower end longer, and those with more skill play a bit at slow speeds, then jump to 3/4 or full more often.

For YOU, since I'm not sure what level you are most comfortable with, and I don't know what you really do in your 60-70 minutes, (just basic rhythm, or single fist linking, double fist linking, Double Punches and Fist Rolls) I would suggest trying to focus your workout a little with a plan.

First, here is a link to some focused speed bag workouts to target various benefits, such as speed, strength or cardio fitness. Be aware that cardio fitness really demands good ability to control the bag for extend periods of time at near full capacity punching.

Second, try to vary the muscles you effect by learning a few elbow strikes - particular the Outward and the Downward. These will allow you to relieve the burn in the shoulder from fist punching, and rotate the shoulder through a larger range of motion to get a better upper body stretch and more muscles involved.

Third, you might try to try a few rounds at a set punching pace, forcing yourself to maintain an exact punching pace. Most new people cannot keep a constant pace. Think of a musician using a metronome. The ticking will set the constant speed, and the musician follows that as the guiding beat. The best speed bag metronome I know of is MUSIC. Get some of your favorite music, better yet pull out some of the tunes from the stone age of Rock & Roll, 1950's and 60's - and play that in the background. Tap your foot to find the beat, (usually very easy to find in 1950-60 Rock & Roll) and change your foot tap to a hand punch on the bag. Just keep a basic rhythm going with the beat of the song. Most 1950-60 music is 2-1/2 to 3 minutes long, so that will be your punching interval. A lot of music such as "pretty woman" "wake up little susie" "bye bye love" "peggy sue" "rockin' robin" "run around sue" "La Bamba", all have a very easy beat to feel and punch along to.

I guess I need to post some video's of punching to these easier tunes to show some samples. Most of my clips feature more complicated music and punching combinations, but there are some quick samples of that in this Bluegrass Clip. From 11secs - to 33 seconds I'm only doing basic punching from the front and back (some double punching pass throughs, but you don't need to do that..). I do it again from 1min 38 sec to 1min 45sec. (grabbing a quick rest from the faster combo's). Your punching doesn't need to be anymore complex than just punching from the front ON the beat.

If you can punch to the slower but constant oldies rock and roll, I'd say 6 or 8 songs would be plenty of workout, coupled with your warmup and other punching. That would be a nice 30-40 minutes. You'll have great fun "sweatin' to the oldies" and perhaps show your son how we shook it back in the day...

(* PS. I was 54 when I filmed that BlueGrass clip)
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  #8  
Old 06-11-2007, 11:10 PM
BoxingGranny BoxingGranny is offline
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Hi Chris,

Thanks for the info on alternating workouts. I guess I could go 3 days a week working my lower body and 3 or 4 on the bag. BTW, I have an Everlast 4214 10" X 7", and have just ordered a double ended ball. (Maybe some bobbing and weaving will help pare down my waist a bit.) I'd like to try the Title 10 X 12, but it will have to wait a bit since I've emptied the piggy bank on this other equipment.

Keep well,
Bobbi
  #9  
Old 06-12-2007, 12:38 PM
BoxingGranny BoxingGranny is offline
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Hi Alan,

Thanks so much for the wealth of helpful info!! You guys are great! I'd say, according to your 3 levels, I'm between levels 1 and 2 - I can do some of the combos at a steady pace for a minute or two, but not at 3/4 speed. When I try to hit the bag with just one rebound, after just a few strikes I always end up hitting one hand with the other. More practice, practice, practice....

As you suggested, I tried doing elbow strikes this morning. Maybe I need either longer forearms or a shorter nose, but I didn't have much luck at all with the downward, (by the way, I clicked the link for the demo of you doing downward elbow striking, but it goes to the Basic FSP, FCP Rhythm demo.)

The outward elbow strikes went very well, as long as I was hitting the bag sideways. After a few starts and stops I got a steady rhythm going, and I realised that I recognized the tempo the bag was making. I was playing the William Tell Overture, better known to us baby boomers as the Lone Ranger theme. (Okay, maybe a WEE bit slower than it was written.) It was the most fun I've ever had exercising. I LOVE this stuff - it's like dancing with your arms, and I'm a Bobby sox and saddle shoes dancin' fool!!

Thanks again for all your help and encouragement!

Bobbi
  #10  
Old 06-12-2007, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGranny View Post
Hi Alan,

Thanks so much for the wealth of helpful info!! You guys are great! I'd say, according to your 3 levels, I'm between levels 1 and 2 - I can do some of the combos at a steady pace for a minute or two, but not at 3/4 speed. When I try to hit the bag with just one rebound, after just a few strikes I always end up hitting one hand with the other. More practice, practice, practice....

As you suggested, I tried doing elbow strikes this morning. Maybe I need either longer forearms or a shorter nose, but I didn't have much luck at all with the downward, (by the way, I clicked the link for the demo of you doing downward elbow striking, but it goes to the Basic FSP, FCP Rhythm demo.)

The outward elbow strikes went very well, as long as I was hitting the bag sideways. After a few starts and stops I got a steady rhythm going, and I realised that I recognized the tempo the bag was making. I was playing the William Tell Overture, better known to us baby boomers as the Lone Ranger theme. (Okay, maybe a WEE bit slower than it was written.) It was the most fun I've ever had exercising. I LOVE this stuff - it's like dancing with your arms, and I'm a Bobby sox and saddle shoes dancin' fool!!

Thanks again for all your help and encouragement!

Bobbi
You can do some of the combo's at a steady pace? GREAT. Just do that, and try to learn new combo's. NEVER worry about speed, that will come with control. Always focus on control.

Outward Elbows (scroll down to the "downward" just underneath.

for the downward elbow, set up like you are going to throw a baseball overhand. your arm goes up and the elbow points forward as you move your arm frontwards. Then the point of the elbow comes downward into the bag belly.

click here for video combination demo's and see clips #5-6-7 for elbow demo's.

I love to punch to the Wm Tell Overture! The main theme of that fast part (the repeating 3-beat theme..) exactly matches 3-punch Fist Rolls (Or triple Elbow strikes from the front) and you can punch directly on beat to that cadence. You might think this is nuts, but here it is written below (voicing underneath...) bold = louder

..RLR........RLR.......RLR........R.........R
F-Roll ' ' R-Roll ' ' F-Roll ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' ( to behind)
d-d-d.....d-d-d.....d-d-d.......d...-....d


..RLR........RLR.......RLR........R.........R
R-Roll ' ' F-Roll ' ' R-Roll ' ' FCP ' ' RSP ' ' ( to front)
d-d-d.....d-d-d.....d-d-d.......d...-.....d


..RLR........RLR.......RLR........R.........R
F-Roll ' ' R-Roll ' ' F-Roll ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' ( to behind)
d-d-d.....d-d-d.....d-d-d.......d...-....d


.RLR.....RLRLRLR.....R........R.....
R-Roll ' ' F-Roll ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' .. ( to behind and start over...)
d-d-d...ddddddd..-..d...-...d

Hi HO Silver, Away.....

(* note the seven punch F-Roll in the last line...)

that punching sequence exactly follows the melody pattern of the main theme.

Trying this is not for the faint hearted.....it happens very fast on a very fast song and demands excellent control of fist rolling and passing through. As written it is pretty much right hand dominant but you can vary the lead fist of the rolls if you want to make it more complicated (as if.....)
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Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
*attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
The Quest Continues...
Onward to SpeedB.A.G. VIII! Summer 2017



The Art of the Bag
 

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