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  #1  
Old 11-17-2007, 12:13 PM
atgatt atgatt is offline
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Speed Bag Bible - why not an infomercial?

When I see all the info-mercials on exercise equipment, I wonder why someone like Alan doesn't have his info-mercial. Truly, I think Everlast in conjunction with Alan's background would sell a ton of speed bag equipment and instruction videos.

Many years ago I won a bet and my friend had to give up his speed bag equipment because he lost. I got addicted to it (the bag, not betting) and did it for years until a bad motorcycle accident. About 18 years later I talked about getting one again and my daughter got me one as a gift. Now I'm addicted again and love using various speed bags from X-small (8 x 5) through X-large (12 x 10). It is my number ONE stress reducer; more than motorcycle riding.

What does America need, less stress and more exercise. Nothing does both better than a speed bag, IMHO. It is safer than a heavy bag and there is something about the rhythm that is like meditation.

I would invest in such a venture because I see it as highly successful.
  #2  
Old 11-17-2007, 03:17 PM
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Speedbag Speedbag is offline
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Originally Posted by atgatt View Post
When I see all the info-mercials on exercise equipment, I wonder why someone like Alan doesn't have his info-mercial...... I would invest in such a venture because I see it as highly successful
The truth is - I have investigated that, with various outlets such as Home shopping Network, the old QVC, ShopNBC, and univsion (spanish) and various national and international direct marketing companies. I met various ones at sporting good shows where they cruise for new products and ideas.

Some "infomercials" are run by the shopping channel themselves, others are just run as down town media buys, purchased by direct marketing agents.

There are many reasons why this is a great idea, but perhaps not a sensible investment. At least not without an immense deep $$$ pocket behind you. I can give you THREE simple reasons why it never went.

First, marketing research shows that the average consumer purchasing from informercials wants something simple to use, out of the box, with no detailed construction, or high learning curve required. The normal expect use time is within 30 minutes of getting the product. With every hour that goes by, the chances of return skyrocket. From receipt to use within an hour or so is not easy to imagine with speed bag equipment. Freestanding units require detailed assembly and are way to unstable to sell to an uniformed public, and forget about hanging a wall unit. That just doesn't bode well for the requirement of instant gratification.

Second, I only have a training program. Some other equipment company has to have the equipment ready to send with 24 hours of the sale. Most of these shows require at least 25,000 pieces in-house if they ship, or guarentee of ready inventory if it is drop shipped. That is a lot of quarenteed inventory for a "possible" good idea. but, read reason "1" again.

Third, behind that cool, slick informercial is the TV media production, before one product gets "on" and that ain't cheap. Networks won't run home video. check this out:

"...The average product infomercial costs about $150,000. A brand infomercial will likely cost two to four times that amount."

There in, the "Deep Pocket". that is a substantial leap of faith to spend before one add is run. (By the way, that is also a LOT of speed bag equipment to sell just to pay the media production cost)

But you are correct that the public is fascinated with speed bag when it gets a good glimpse of it. The sale of equipment, and my program did quadruple during the run of Million Dollar Baby, and shot up again with the movie Cinderlla Man right after. I'm rooting for more really good boxing movies!.

Had I a healthy enough shoulder to support the effort, I would definitely submit video to the reality shows on present day TV, doing a rhythmic variety act featuring speed bags and drums. But that dream is on the shelf for a later date....


Quote:
Originally Posted by atgatt View Post
Truly, I think Everlast in conjunction with Alan's background would sell a ton of speed bag equipment and instruction videos.
That was also a dream of mine years ago. Unfortunately, at that time (early 1990's) the top management of Everlast and I had serious disagreements on what should be included in my training program, along with how it would be promoted. Suffice it to say that the first printing of The Speed Bag Bible had all Everlast equipment featured in my equipment section. (chapter 1). The next 5 printings did not. To bad, because up to that point the 4200 was absolutely my favorite bag, followed by the 4204. I chose not change the Book cover art, which has the 4200 on the front and the red 4210 on the back. My training DVD has Ringside equipment, (although I did shoot the entire series on two bags, Ringside and Everlast. Every time I did a good take on one bag, I would change bags and do it over on the other bag.... just in case a future relationship developed. No joy yet, although that management group has now exited the Everlast picture.)

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Originally Posted by atgatt View Post
and there is something about the rhythm that is like meditation.
Exactly. Without getting into the scientific details of it, the human body and brain is definitely attracted to external auditory rhythms. There are lots of very smart people doing deep research on what we speed baggers have know for a long time. The repetitive sound is mesmerizing and the human brain likes it.
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2007, 05:22 PM
atgatt atgatt is offline
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Wow Alan, thanks for the great answers. Obviously, this thought is not new to you and I've learned a lot from your answers.

I have not read every thread yet in your forum and I am new to it, but it is a wealth of speed bag info. If I recall, somewhere you mentioned that you are experimenting with a platform that picks up the rhythm of the bag. I saw your workouts on YouTube to music. You are outstanding. You know the thought that came to my mind immediately, you doing a song or two with your acoustic platform with the Blue Men Group: http://www.blueman.com/

What a show that would be!

It would be interesting too to see if the show The Contender would fit in a segment showing the best speed bagger alive, you.

Send your video to the Ellen Degerneres Show because my wife who watches it all the time said they'll show very unusual talents.

I'll pray for your shoulder. Mine got messed up real bad in that accident and it is the first to fatigue when I use the speed bag, but hey, I am so thankful my shoulder allows me to do the speed bag again. I was concerned it would make it worse.

I'll look up what you posted on rhythm therapy and do some research on it. http://www.fundrums.com/Rhythm%20Healing.htm

Thank you again for taking the time for your answer. I just think you are really on to something and need to be discovered more.

God bless,
John
  #4  
Old 11-17-2007, 09:30 PM
atgatt atgatt is offline
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I can't believe it, I just came across this info how you ALREADY met the Blue Man Group. What a trip!!

http://www.speedbagcentral.com/ssp/blue_man_group

Maybe the day will come and you'll have the platform acoustics perfected and you'll be in their show.
  #5  
Old 11-17-2007, 10:28 PM
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Speedbag Speedbag is offline
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Originally Posted by atgatt View Post
Wow Alan, thanks for the great answers. Obviously, this thought is not new to you and I've learned a lot from your answers.

I have not read every thread yet in your forum and I am new to it, but it is a wealth of speed bag info.
Well, I've been hitting the speed bag a long time, working on my training program for almost 20 years. I have been chasing speed bag promotions for a long time, and that has only been second to my passion to create a legitimate teaching system. That was first published in book form in 1995. The video's came out in October of 1996. The book has been constantly edited for content, and the video openings and closing were re-editing in 2001. I've met a lot of "big" names from the sports and entertainment industry, and some not so big, that stated interested in doing something to promote speed bag on a large level. And it mostly turn out to be smoke and mirrors, disappearing after they got a free book and video. Every one of those shopping networks contacted ME at sporting goods shows. I did not seek them out. QVC was the most ardent, trying many ways to make it work, but it just couldn't pass the quantity tests. I've learned the hard way not to get to excited about the next "big" speed bag promotion. At this point, I'm just as happy helping people like you and the forum members get more out of their workout. This is real, not promises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atgatt View Post
If I recall, somewhere you mentioned that you are experimenting with a platform that picks up the rhythm of the bag.
Yes, I have a DM5 Drum machine rigged up with 9 Pintech RS-5 Radial Sensors to a specially designed rebound board. Each trigger sensor can be tuned to a different drum sound, and I best like each board quandrant (3 triggers) tuned to the same drum sound. It is a work in progress, with several problems that keep cropping up, like cross triggering and the triggers "dropping" (not picking up) the unpunched swinging rebounds. Say in the triplet rhythm, occassionally the third (unpunched) rebound, which is the softest, will not fire the triggers consistenly. One of these days I'll post a video with it, but I'm not ready to go on that yet.

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Originally Posted by atgatt View Post
I saw your workouts on YouTube to music. You are outstanding. You know the thought that came to my mind immediately, you doing a song or two with your acoustic platform with the Blue Men Group: http://www.blueman.com/ What a show that would be!
I was a drummer in junior high and high school. I have always been able to hear a rhythm and reproduce it in my hands. Then I learned the drum set, which was also very natural to me. I hear a beat, then feel it, then can do it. I suppose it's a gift, to play by ear. I started doing it with the speed bag in the early 1990's, and I am still perfecting that. The more I do it, the more I understand it. I normally can hit to any song immediately. I can hear the bag beat immediately in my head and my hands just do it. I guess it helps that I can usually reproduce any beat I want starting from anywhere around the bag. That takes a little bag knowledge and skill. But plenty of people now have the punching skill to do that. Putting it to music is another story.

Funny you should mention BlueMan group. Been there, done that. Had a ball and it was one of the highlights of my speed bag career.

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Originally Posted by atgatt View Post
It would be interesting too to see if the show The Contender would fit in a segment showing the best speed bagger alive, you.
I appreciate that last part, but in all actuality the "best" on the speed bag has never been determined. There are plenty of talented baggers around. In all honesty, even though it sounds hokey, I try to keep all my personal speed bag promotional efforts about the BAG, not me personally. The uniqueness of the BAG itself is the real story. I'm just the story teller.
In all honesty, I doubt that the Contender will feature ME. Better check the shows major sponsor.... ( I did meet Sugar Ray Leonard, and got a picture with him once. Gave him a book if I remember correctly. I did hit the speed bag for about a minute with his manager looking on. He gave me his card, but never returned the call.).

Before this last surgery, I had been hitting to The Contender theme music. It's interesting because it is in 3/4 time, not standard 4/4. That almost demands a constant basic rhythm, which syncs really well in that meter. I've been waiting to post that video with a few other movie themes, or part of a rocky tribute. I burned a lot of video before this last surgery, so I need to get into the old editing suite.

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Originally Posted by atgatt View Post
Send your video to the Ellen Degerneres Show because my wife who watches it all the time said they'll show very unusual talents.
A few years ago, I sent demo's to Jay Leno, Letterman and Oprah. All sent very nice letters of "thanks, but we don't do that...." But Barack Obama did punch a speed bag (once) on Ellen the other day....

Quote:
Originally Posted by atgatt View Post

I'll look up what you posted on rhythm therapy and do some research on it. http://www.fundrums.com/Rhythm%20Healing.htm Thank you again for taking the time for your answer. I just think you are really on to something and need to be discovered more.
God bless,
John
Try some of these links:


Bimanual coordination deficits with Parkinson's disease: the influence of movement speed and external cueing
, then click on the "related links". These all have to do with the tendency of the bodies arms and leg movements, even with movement disorders, to sync to an external sound source.

Punching and pointing movements. More ocular in nature (eye movements) but still interesting how the body "targets" motion.

The Center for Biomedical Research in Music (CBRM). I would love to go to school with these folks....

Power point demo of rhythmic Auditory Stimulation (RAS)

Repetitive Bilateral Arm Training With Rhythmic Auditory Cueing. Why not a speed bag?

For more "Drum based" reading, you might want to focus on the more mystic topics of the shaman, and shamanic drumming.

try these:

Drumming as a form of prayer

The shaman drum

Books I recommend for drummers or those interested in the exploration of rhythm.

The Drummer's Path

The way of the Pulse: Drumming with Spirit

Shamanic Guide to drumming

The healing power of the Drum

The Tao of Drumming

When the drummers were women

pick up some of this guys CD's. Awesome rhythms with hand drums.

Brent Lewis

This kind of music is not for everyone, but if you like drums and rhythmic groove patterns with a mix of high and deep drums, listen to some of the mp3 samples from his albums. particularly these. (Try to keep your hands still.. If you CAN tap a groove beat with him, then try it on the bag..)

Groove attack from the Rhythm Hunter
Catch that wild man from the Rhythm Hunter.
talking drums from pulse drumming
Mr. Mahalo... from the Primitive Truth

and a few of my favorites:

Dinner at the sugarbush from DrumSex (* love that didgeridoo in the opening)
Temple of love from DrumSex. (* fast syncopated groove)
Jingle Bells (*put a little jungle beat in your christmas....)
__________________
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Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
*attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
The Quest Continues...
Onward to SpeedB.A.G. VIII! Summer 2017



The Art of the Bag
  #6  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:56 AM
atgatt atgatt is offline
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Alan, read every word. Your talent shows in your videos, but your heart shows in your writing. You're about helping, not pride. A true teacher.

You have me reading about this rhythm topic and in time, I'll read through all the sites you provided. It's been 2 months of hitting the bag again and immediately I noticed how I put rhythm into my daily life, such as motorcycling, typing, thinking, etc.

You have been so gracious in providing thorough answers and I won't take much more of your time, but more thoughts come to mind, for what they're worth.

In your pursuit of the acoustic platform:
-Consider a foot control like guitarist use that changes the tone, so when you hit that same area again, it has a different tone giving you a much greater range of sounds in a limited space.

-This is a far out thought, but for the mere sake of a platform being a source of acoustic and visual expression of music, or even in therapy, is to have an "assisted" platform, sort of like a pin ball, so when the bag hits the board, the board suddenly pushes down and assists in the power. The swivel in the center does not because it is stationary island.

This gives a "speedbagist" an energy saving way to hit through many songs and a person in therapy to experience rhythm in sound and movement as their condition is too weak yet to do it themselves.

But talk is cheap and I need to start looking into what I'd like to see rather than leaving it to someone else. My first speed bag that I won in that bet over 30 years ago was a metal ring with the swivel in the middle of it, so the bag had to be that size to hit the "belly" on the metal ring. That ring concept can be applied to a pin ball assist.

I'll look into that, along with the sites you listed.

Thanks again, Alan. Time to hit the speed bags now!!
  #7  
Old 11-18-2007, 02:12 PM
ashe ashe is offline
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that's sux that your shoulder has gone south alan. i see the same thing with my Sifu and his knee. =-(
 

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