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Old 11-18-2007, 07:10 PM
Paco Paco is offline
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Question Everlast and Title , same company or no?

Hello Everybody,

First I would like to introduce myself. I'm new on the forum, I'm 34, male, married, living in Guadeloupe, a French Caribbean Island. I begin to do boxing since 1 year in order to keep myself in good health. I practice in my garage 2 hours/day doing some musculation, speedbag, double end bag, heavy bag and shadow. 10 years I haven't do any sport so it was time for me to do something, I choose boxing because it was the only activity I loved and that I could do at home. My favourites boxers are : Ali ( of course ), Holyfield and De La Hoya. I appreciate a lot Fedor Emelianenko ( mma ) and Le Banner ( K1 ). My favourite Singer is and will stay for ever Jimi Hendrix.

I would like to congratulate Alan Kahn for all his work, he is an example for all of us . Great job Alan !

When I started boxing one year ago, I bought some Everlast products on a french website ( boxing glove and bag glove ). For me boxing and Everlast are indissociable, Everlast is a legend trade. I was very surprised when I received the products. Medium leather quality, bad finition, with the mention " made in pakistan ". I had a debate with a vendor about that, he told me that the Everlast products sold in Europe are different from USA. Everlast has sold his trademark in Europe to an European Company. So the European Everlast products are not the same and not made with the same material. Disappointed I decided to buy some Everlast products on the us website : http://store.everlastboxing.com/ . At this time, I bought some gloves http://store.everlastboxing.com/ever...ng-gloves.html and http://store.everlastboxing.com/ever...ag-gloves.html and some speedbag : http://store.everlastboxing.com/ever...speed-bag.html and http://store.everlastboxing.com/ever...peed-bags.html ( the yellow/black in 9*6 , the red/black in 6*4 and the red in 8*6 ). All I can say is that the quality is better on US products than European products. However, when I look my 9*6 speed bag ( Yellow/black : http://store.everlastboxing.com/ever...peed-bags.html ) I can't say that the product is top quality, the bag is good, fast, supple but the leather quality is poor, specialy on the yellow side ( crackle ! ). For the all red and the red/black the quality is better but not the best leather quality you can hope. Besides it doesn't smell leather at all. The high performance speed bag : http://store.everlastboxing.com/ever...speed-bag.html have the worst leather quality I never seen, it looks like plastic, the speed bag is soft to use with strange rebounce. All these bags are made in China.

Before the Everlast Products were made in the USA, now, for some economics reasons, they are made in China. So here is my question, since how many times the Everlast Products are not made in USA ? Is the quality was better before , when they were made in the USA or equal at now ? What do you prefere to use, older speed bag ( made in USA ) or newest ( made in China ) ?

Thanks for your answers and sorry for " my poor english "
  #2  
Old 11-18-2007, 10:05 PM
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Hello Paco, and welcome to the forum, and thanks for the kind words personally.

I can't say much about the present day manufacturing of different bags by any particular company, except that most are probably driven by pricing and the availability of cheap labor. Internationally there are also labor, material and tariff/import taxing that also play into where certain products are made to sell in certain other countries.

And in the world of licensing brand names, which many companies do make money from, that may also influence product manufacturing by a company other than the original, but sold under that licensed brand name.

I have no idea about Everlast boxing products inparticular, except that their history seems to have the USA production site now in Moberly Missouri since about 2003. At least that is what this history seems to indicate, written by Johnny Golomb, the grandson of the late Jacob Golomb, who started Everlast originally.

Here is another article about the History of Everlast.

In today's world, who knows where products are made anymore. With modern production methods, one "batch" of a companies speed bags could be made in the USA, another batch in India, another in China, Another in pakistan. All might end up being the same model ( say the 4200 ), packaged in the same box. Obviously, the production qualities of each would be different, making some bags good, others bad.

As for quality speed bags, I would suggest trying some other boxing company products, such as Titleboxing and Ringside boxing and Rival boxing. Most of us have been very happy with these.

Good luck with your equipment.
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2007, 11:31 PM
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Thanks a lot Speedbag for your long answer.

I realize that even the famous Company are forced nowadays to make some choice and I understand them. However, at the bottom of myself, I find it sad...

Maybe I will try one day some other boxing company products even if I'm very attached to Everlast. I think that Cleto Reyes is a good one. Title and Everlast are the same Company, Title have good products too, cheaper than Everlast but the quality is equal. Rival makes some good products, innovating but actually their speedbag are made in " microfiber ". For Ringside it's seems that their speedbags are very appreciated, Adidas too. I would like to try the Jim Bradleys's bags ( http://www.jimbradley.com.au/html/s1...v_top_id=Shop2 ) but not easy for me to have one...

I will see, for the moment I keep my Everlast Speedbags
  #4  
Old 11-19-2007, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paco View Post
Thanks a lot Speedbag for your long answer. Title and Everlast are the same Company
Actually, that isn't really true. Titleboxing sells the Everlast BRAND, as a licensed dealer, but Titleboxing is a separate company with it's own factory and production locations in Lenexa Kansas. They sell many brands, as well as their own.

If you check the "Everlast" website, you will not see Titleboxing products. If they WERE the same company, it would make more sense to also feature your lower priced products as well - but that is not the case.
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2007, 07:54 AM
Tim Tim is offline
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Welcome to the forum.

I think most everything is made in China now a days... the only speed bags that I know of "made in the USA" are these: http://www.thesportsdoctor.com/Boxing.html

I haven't used any of those, and don't know anyone that has. I know at one time approx a year ago the company was heavily backlogged with other work and those bags effectively weren't available. I'm not sure what the price is either...
  #6  
Old 11-19-2007, 09:23 AM
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Maybe Title and Everlast are not the same company but they are located at the same place : http://www.titleboxing.com/contact/index.html and http://www.everlastboxing.com/contac...st_boxing.html. When I make an order on the Everlast website or Title website it s the same person that reply to me with this mention " TITLE/EVERLAST BOXING - International Department " and the billing and the shipping come from Title Boxing, never from Everlast. So maybe Everlast doesn't sell their own products and Title is the official retailer, don't know but for sure Title and Everlast are very closely related...

Tim, thanks a lot for you website link.

What about the old company like Sears ? Is this company always exist and always made speedbag ? Is someone have use one of their speed bag in the past ?
  #7  
Old 11-19-2007, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paco View Post
Maybe Title and Everlast are not the same company but they are located at the same place : http://www.titleboxing.com/contact/index.html and http://www.everlastboxing.com/contac...st_boxing.html. When I make an order on the Everlast website or Title website it s the same person that reply to me with this mention " TITLE/EVERLAST BOXING - International Department " and the billing and the shipping come from Title Boxing, never from Everlast. So maybe Everlast doesn't sell their own products and Title is the official retailer, don't know but for sure Title and Everlast are very closely related...

Tim, thanks a lot for you website link.

What about the old company like Sears ? Is this company always exist and always made speedbag ? Is someone have use one of their speed bag in the past ?
Very good observation. Perhaps Everlast has sub-contracted out all their distribution to Titleboxing, using them as their fullfillment company, - not their production company. I'll ask Titleboxing Staff next time I talk to them...
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2007, 05:19 PM
firemanjer firemanjer is offline
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I ordered recently from everlast.com My credit card statement said Title boxing. I called to inquire, the rep said the two were "sister companies". Just got a holiday catalogue from everlast. The return address was Lenexa, KS the same as Title...
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Old 11-20-2007, 07:14 PM
Paco Paco is offline
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Yep ! That 's what I was thinking and saying...

For me, Title is ( in USA ) the official retailer. But there an other thing that I can't really explain, when you go on Amazon.com ( http://www.amazon.com/Everlast-4214-.../dp/B00076ZEGC ) you will find a lot of new products Everlast but these products you even don't find them on the Everlast website. There is a lot of sellers that sell Everlast's products you even don't find on the website, so... When I look behind the case of this product : http://store.everlastboxing.com/ever...ng-gloves.html I can read this mention :

Made in Pakistan : Distributed by Sports and Leisure Technology Corp. Yonkers, NY 10701, under license by Trademark owner Everlast Worldwide Inc c 2002.

And it's not the only product with this mention. Some other are distributed and manufactured by a third Company.

Honesltly, and I really don't like to say that, I think that Everlast sell is trademark at some other Company, these Company make the production and the sale, Everlast earn some Royalties , the Company some profits. For sure, in Europe Everlast is still not proprietor of his trademark. It's seems they sold their Trademark to a German Company. If you are in Europe, I'm not sure you still can buy some products on the US Everlast website ! If you go on european website you will see that the Everlast products are differents than the US products. It's a french retailer that told me that ! And if you go in Europe, you will see that is not easy to find some Everlast Boxing products because the German Company ( this one that bought the Everlast Trademark ) doesn't manufactured a lot of items.

It's not easy to know the truth, but for sure Everlast is not the Company that it was in the past, unfortunately....
  #10  
Old 11-20-2007, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paco View Post

...Made in Pakistan : Distributed by Sports and Leisure Technology Corp. Yonkers, NY 10701, under license by Trademark owner Everlast Worldwide Inc c 2002.

And it's not the only product with this mention. Some other are distributed and manufactured by a third Company.

Honestly, and I really don't like to say that, I think that Everlast sell is trademark at some other Company, these Company make the production and the sale, Everlast earn some Royalties , the Company some profits. For sure, in Europe Everlast is still not proprietor of his trademark. It's seems they sold their Trademark to a German Company

If you are in Europe, I'm not sure you still can buy some products on the US Everlast website ! If you go on european website you will see that the Everlast products are differents than the US products. It's a french retailer that told me that ! And if you go in Europe, you will see that is not easy to find some Everlast Boxing products because the German Company ( this one that bought the Everlast Trademark ) doesn't manufactured a lot of items.

It's not easy to know the truth, but for sure Everlast is not the Company that it was in the past, unfortunately....
You are right, and the sporting goods industry is full of large companies that sell the license (rights) to sell either their products or their trademark logo's.

Some of the products the licensee sells have to meet the original companies production standards, say on a treadmill or speed bag, and certain products do not (say a shirt, hat or outer wear) It all depends on the agreement. Everlast is no different in this regard, and they make a fortune off licensing their trademarked name. With the international success of The Contender, no doubt hundreds of European countries signed up to purchase rights to use the trademark on boxing related apparel and equipment.

When I use to attend the Giant USA convention of the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association, of which I used to be a member, they always had a whole section for franchising, international licensing and trademark rights, as well as classes for product representatives on how to negotiate licensing agreements and how to get import rights into other countries for their own products. It is a billion dollar business, and Everlast, like Nike, Reebock, Every major college and major league sports franchise, and others make millions off their name and logo's only. Use their name, logo or promo without permission and you could get nailed for illegal distribution. Even the Phrase "Super Bowl" is a registered trademark, and the NFL monitors who uses it without permission.

For a little diversion into the topic of product licensing, Here are a few samples on Everlast.

Everlast Worldwide Sec filing scroll down to see: Candian Licensing agreement. (get a cup of coffee....)

Everlast SEC filing to move to Moberly Missouri in 2004 (good info about the company in general)

Everlast Annual Report filing with SEC, 2004 (this really explains the entire company set-up. A great read if you want to see the diversity of the company)

Everlast Worldwide Inc. Signs Two Licensing Agreements to Introduce Footwear in Europe and South Africa.

The fact is, there seems to be less and less uniformity of quality in various companies products these days, as the international hunt for "faster and cheaper" rules the market.
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