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  • Speedbag
    Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

    • Feb 2006
    • 7109

    #16
    Originally posted by PIEFURZ View Post
    Or mount the swivel to a Gong.

    I was thinking of a way to mount the swivel to the center of a kick drum I guess it is, the big one with the foot pedal. Come from the inside with a pedestal to mount the swivel to the outside and put a rubber gasket on each side of the skin to keep it from ripping then affix the drum frame to the pedestal to make it all one unit so the bag could swing back and forth to hit the skin. Maybe need to use the big drum like they use in marching bands to get a larger surface. Possible mount the back side of the drum to a thick plywood and mount the pedestal to that to extend it to the skin surface. Sorry, I don't know drum terminology.

    What do ya think, AK and BT?


    Maybe I'm missing your method of swivel attachment,but I don't think you can fasten the swivel to anything that penetrates the drum head. It has to be tightened evenly around the rim and any tears will immediately rip the head. Actually Tichy and I have discussed this at length and the head itself cannot be penetrated. That is also why blueman Group attached the swivel inbetween to drum rims. You could have a wood bar or something placed tightly between the frame to attach the swivel but that would negate any rebounds where the wood allows the swivel to attach.

    Rimless drums might also work but whatever drum is used you can't really penetrate the drum head.
    Speed Bag

    Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
    *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
    The Quest Continues...
    Hoping for another Gathering...


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    The Art of the Bag

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    • spinsmashpop
      Speed Bag Wizard

      • Nov 2008
      • 1081

      #17
      Originally posted by metaldad View Post
      Yeah, I remember her, or rather parts of her. Oh, and the Whitesnake song rocks.

      Can't wait til you run through Chi-Town! Maybe this time I can hang a bit longer and have a drink with ya! I was gonna suggest some type of vertical freestanding board. I'm not much the designer of things to be designed, but I try. Yes Bigging will set you free!! Live To Bag!!
      Yes, we'll hang in Chicago!

      Originally posted by PIEFURZ View Post
      I've see those flying elbows before but don't recognize with the hair down. Trying to invision how to add a bag to the set.
      I am trying ....

      Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
      May have to move or adjust the symbols, at least for the solo part using a speed bag.
      I can build this without havin to move cymbals... it the stand that has to be badass... or else it's a failure...

      Originally posted by toolboxdiver View Post
      or put the bag behind him like Nick Mason used to have the Gong
      Behind me is cool... and now that I replying for a 2nd time about this idea being behind me, I see a new possibility.... If it was on it's own stnad behind me... I need it to get to an angle where I am facing the audience.. it wouldn't be right to do this facing the wrong way...
      *****I did have an idea of having the whole drum riser circle 180', so the back is the front, and then there is a platform on a stand and a small bass drum... I get the audience clapping with my bass drum keeping time.. and then I bust into the punch drumming... that would be the easiest ...
      but we would need a rotating riser... and I heard we are not even carrying our own ... we tell each gig to provide an exact one... so there is no way .. we can show up and have a rotating riser waiting for us...
      I wish...

      Originally posted by PIEFURZ View Post
      Or mount the swivel to a Gong.

      I was thinking of a way to mount the swivel to the center of a kick drum I guess it is, the big one with the foot pedal. Come from the inside with a pedestal to mount the swivel to the outside and put a rubber gasket on each side of the skin to keep it from ripping then affix the drum frame to the pedestal to make it all one unit so the bag could swing back and forth to hit the skin. Maybe need to use the big drum like they use in marching bands to get a larger surface. Possible mount the back side of the drum to a thick plywood and mount the pedestal to that to extend it to the skin surface. Sorry, I don't know drum terminology.

      What do ya think, AK and BT?
      PIEFURZ.... is your concept based on Vertical bagging? I looked at the diagram, thanks very much ... but I can'tell if I am viewing from top, or front.. but your description sound like a vertical design based off of hitting the bag to the bass drum, the one on the ground...
      Good idea.. but I wasnt people all the way in the back to see it too...
      It would be real hard to do a vertical thing... also .. there is no room with all the other drums around... and if you are gonna set it up outside of the kit... then you might as well go for the standard bagging , horizontally...
      thanks..

      Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
      Maybe I'm missing your method of swivel attachment,but I don't think you can fasten the swivel to anything that penetrates the drum head. It has to be tightened evenly around the rim and any tears will immediately rip the head. Actually Tichy and I have discussed this at length and the head itself cannot be penetrated. That is also why blueman Group attached the swivel inbetween to drum rims. You could have a wood bar or something placed tightly between the frame to attach the swivel but that would negate any rebounds where the wood allows the swivel to attach.

      Rimless drums might also work but whatever drum is used you can't really penetrate the drum head.
      YES.. AK and I would be beyond stoked to see this happen...
      It would be the biggest display of speed bagging and punch drumming ever!
      Based onthat alone, it makes me want to get this together once and for all...
      BaG ON!!!

      Comment

      • PIEFURZ
        Speed Bag Trainee

        • Jun 2010
        • 294

        #18
        Originally posted by spinsmashpop View Post
        Yes, we'll hang in Chicago!

        I am trying ....


        I can build this without havin to move cymbals... it the stand that has to be badass... or else it's a failure...


        Behind me is cool... and now that I replying for a 2nd time about this idea being behind me, I see a new possibility.... If it was on it's own stnad behind me... I need it to get to an angle where I am facing the audience.. it wouldn't be right to do this facing the wrong way...
        *****I did have an idea of having the whole drum riser circle 180', so the back is the front, and then there is a platform on a stand and a small bass drum... I get the audience clapping with my bass drum keeping time.. and then I bust into the punch drumming... that would be the easiest ...
        but we would need a rotating riser... and I heard we are not even carrying our own ... we tell each gig to provide an exact one... so there is no way .. we can show up and have a rotating riser waiting for us...
        I wish...


        PIEFURZ.... is your concept based on Vertical bagging? I looked at the diagram, thanks very much ... but I can'tell if I am viewing from top, or front.. but your description sound like a vertical design based off of hitting the bag to the bass drum, the one on the ground...
        Good idea.. but I wasnt people all the way in the back to see it too...
        It would be real hard to do a vertical thing... also .. there is no room with all the other drums around... and if you are gonna set it up outside of the kit... then you might as well go for the standard bagging , horizontally...
        thanks..


        YES.. AK and I would be beyond stoked to see this happen...
        It would be the biggest display of speed bagging and punch drumming ever!
        Based onthat alone, it makes me want to get this together once and for all...
        BaG ON!!!
        Brian, sorry I didn't mention that it should be overhead, it was easier to draw it vertical. Vertical bagging is harder to do, would limit what you could do and not be easy for the audience to see and understand. Don't want to make it hard to do. Alan has concerns with the skin ripping if it's penetrated by the mount. My idea would have it only penetrated by the 4, 1/4" bolts with rubber gaskets on both sides of the skin which should take the pressure off of the holes in the skin so it won't rip. With the beating that drums take I would think that the skin is rather tough. Could even rubber cement it to the gaskets. For a small bag a kick drum may be big enough. Something to experiment with if you have an old drum.

        I tried to post on another thread an idea for a cage but I keep getting logged of and lost it. I see where you may not travel with your own stage so using the stage as a starting point to build a gage wouldn't work. I thought if you could use some type of standard stage rigging to build a cage the size of the stage, say 8x8' and tall enough for your height under the board that would keep it open enough for drumming and so the audience could see in. Of course dress it up with Whitesnake banners. Added comment, it may not need to reach to the front of your stage but whatever distance it takes to make it solid but keep it wide so your not caged in. I see where you get a little wild. You're the one to pull this off, good luck Brian.
        Last edited by PIEFURZ; 02-20-2011, 06:58 PM.

        Comment

        • PIEFURZ
          Speed Bag Trainee

          • Jun 2010
          • 294

          #19
          Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
          Geez, I can't think of her name, ....you know, the one on the pole. She came to a sporting good show I did there about 10 years ago.

          I hate it when I forget names.
          I thought that was Bongo bums, er I mean drums that Brian mounted to a chrome stand. Check out Tommy Lee on Tosh.O

          This weekly topical series hosted by comedian Daniel Tosh delves into all aspects of the Internet, from the ingenious to the absurd to the medically inadvisable.

          Comment

          • PIEFURZ
            Speed Bag Trainee

            • Jun 2010
            • 294

            #20
            Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
            Maybe I'm missing your method of swivel attachment,but I don't think you can fasten the swivel to anything that penetrates the drum head. It has to be tightened evenly around the rim and any tears will immediately rip the head. Actually Tichy and I have discussed this at length and the head itself cannot be penetrated. That is also why blueman Group attached the swivel inbetween to drum rims. You could have a wood bar or something placed tightly between the frame to attach the swivel but that would negate any rebounds where the wood allows the swivel to attach.

            Rimless drums might also work but whatever drum is used you can't really penetrate the drum head.
            Alan, I was thinking of like a 3/4" plywood to mount the back of the drum to and this would be used to mount the whole thing like a regular platform. Then from the center of the board mount a 4x4 with right angle bracing to the plywood. The 4x4 would come to the back of the skin with a rubber gasket on the end of it. Then the skin and another rubber gasket followed by the swivel. The only holes thru the skin would be for the 4, 1/4" screws. Use rubber cement or some other appropriate adhesive to hold the gaskets to the skin. I don't know how much tension is put on a drum head but I imagine that the skin is rather touch. Sandwiching the skin with enough pressure should keep the tension from reaching the four holes. For a bag to hit the sweet spot between the swivel and rim the choice of bag and drum size would have to be made. May even need the big drum like in marching bands. How was the sound and rebound when you tried two drums? Snares or big tambourines would really be different.

            Comment

            • Speedbag
              Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

              • Feb 2006
              • 7109

              #21
              Originally posted by PIEFURZ View Post
              Alan, I was thinking of like a 3/4" plywood to mount the back of the drum to and this would be used to mount the whole thing like a regular platform. Then from the center of the board mount a 4x4 with right angle bracing to the plywood. The 4x4 would come to the back of the skin with a rubber gasket on the end of it. Then the skin and another rubber gasket followed by the swivel. The only holes thru the skin would be for the 4, 1/4" screws. Use rubber cement or some other appropriate adhesive to hold the gaskets to the skin. I don't know how much tension is put on a drum head but I imagine that the skin is rather touch. Sandwiching the skin with enough pressure should keep the tension from reaching the four holes. For a bag to hit the sweet spot between the swivel and rim the choice of bag and drum size would have to be made. May even need the big drum like in marching bands. How was the sound and rebound when you tried two drums? Snares or big tambourines would really be different.
              Even with the adhesive and gasket pressure, I still think the head would eventually tear or rip at one or more of the holes. Not only would the head and holes have to endure the tightening/tuning pressure, but the constant varied pressure of the rebounding bag would continually exert varied pressure and stretching. The only holes I've seen in drumheads is on the resonant, or unbeaten, head. This is done (often called a kickport for tuning) but it's not done on the contact side. At least not that I've seen. I'm sure BT is an expert on drumhead technology, tuning and setup, and in our conversations he has never said anything about putting holes in the contact head.

              Actually the idea that has worked best for a "drum sound" rebound board is to attach Piezo style drum triggers to the board and tune them to the sounds you want through an electronic drum machine like a DM-5 to tune each trigger to drum sounds.I've experimented with this in the past and it works "pretty good" but tends to have a few problems like cross triggering and dropping about 10% of the unpunched (swinging) rebounds in the triplet rhythm. Believe it or not that can really screw with your ears and changes the bag beat. (a Triplet rhythm will drop the third rebound, so you only hear two through the speakers).

              but I think the simplest, fastest way to get a reliable and stable speed bag set up would be to use the Balazsboxing universal speed bag freestanding floor frame. Problem is it's heavy, and very expensive. I've hit on two of these and it's the most stable free standing floor unit I've seen. Not easy to take on the road though.
              Speed Bag

              Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
              *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
              The Quest Continues...
              Hoping for another Gathering...


              sigpic

              The Art of the Bag

              Comment

              • PIEFURZ
                Speed Bag Trainee

                • Jun 2010
                • 294

                #22
                Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                Even with the adhesive and gasket pressure, I still think the head would eventually tear or rip at one or more of the holes. Not only would the head and holes have to endure the tightening/tuning pressure, but the constant varied pressure of the rebounding bag would continually exert varied pressure and stretching. The only holes I've seen in drumheads is on the resonant, or unbeaten, head. This is done (often called a kickport for tuning) but it's not done on the contact side. At least not that I've seen. I'm sure BT is an expert on drumhead technology, tuning and setup, and in our conversations he has never said anything about putting holes in the contact head.

                Actually the idea that has worked best for a "drum sound" rebound board is to attach Piezo style drum triggers to the board and tune them to the sounds you want through an electronic drum machine like a DM-5 to tune each trigger to drum sounds.I've experimented with this in the past and it works "pretty good" but tends to have a few problems like cross triggering and dropping about 10% of the unpunched (swinging) rebounds in the triplet rhythm. Believe it or not that can really screw with your ears and changes the bag beat. (a Triplet rhythm will drop the third rebound, so you only hear two through the speakers).

                but I think the simplest, fastest way to get a reliable and stable speed bag set up would be to use the Balazsboxing universal speed bag freestanding floor frame. Problem is it's heavy, and very expensive. I've hit on two of these and it's the most stable free standing floor unit I've seen. Not easy to take on the road though.
                Thats probably the technology built into drum pads like this and the toy ones.
                http://www.provantage.com/numark-e-p...d~7NMRK01F.htm. May be a way to mount some on a board.
                I think you're as close as one could get on a stand with that Balazs, try to clamp it down to the stage somehow. OOps, had to edit after I saw the price, they are proud of that thing. Back to the drawig board.
                Last edited by PIEFURZ; 02-24-2011, 12:38 AM.

                Comment

                • Speedbag
                  Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                  • Feb 2006
                  • 7109

                  #23
                  Originally posted by PIEFURZ View Post
                  Thats probably the technology built into drum pads like this and the toy ones.
                  http://www.provantage.com/numark-e-p...d~7NMRK01F.htm. May be a way to mount some on a board.
                  I think you're as close as one could get on a stand with that Balazs, try to clamp it down to the stage somehow.
                  OOps, had to edit after I saw the price, they are proud of that thing.

                  Back to the drawig board.
                  Pricey. Do ya think?
                  Speed Bag

                  Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                  *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                  The Quest Continues...
                  Hoping for another Gathering...


                  sigpic

                  The Art of the Bag

                  Comment

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