Rhythm pattern bagging

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  • Del-Striking
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2014
    • 116

    Rhythm pattern bagging

    Question? I have played rhythm guitar and I find myself bagging more to rhythm patterns than to drum beats. I do tend to mix the two during a song though. Rhythm patterns tend to have a natural flow for me. for ex: 1and 2e and 3and 4eand, which is eighth notes and triplets in a 4/4 time signature. My question is can this combination of the two be effective in pulling of a good video demo without over powering the song as long as proper time is kept?
  • Speedbag
    Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

    • Feb 2006
    • 7109

    #2
    Originally posted by Del-Striking View Post
    Question? I have played rhythm guitar and I find myself bagging more to rhythm patterns than to drum beats. I do tend to mix the two during a song though. Rhythm patterns tend to have a natural flow for me. for ex: 1and 2e and 3and 4eand, which is eighth notes and triplets in a 4/4 time signature. My question is can this combination of the two be effective in pulling of a good video demo without over powering the song as long as proper time is kept?
    Yes. as long as you can make the bag understand it, your system will work fine.

    Speed Bag

    Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
    *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
    The Quest Continues...
    Hoping for another Gathering...


    sigpic

    The Art of the Bag

    Comment

    • Niki Knuckles
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2012
      • 175

      #3
      I like to tune my bags in the key of G.

      I have 2 platforms so I can hit 2 bags at once.
      Harmony is the sweetest sound.
      Don't buy your speed bag from the same place you buy your tackle box.

      Comment

      • Zaza
        Speed Bag Guru
        • Apr 2011
        • 2000

        #4
        Go with the flow....you never know!
        Art of the Bag - A Speed Bag Story
        http://www.artofthebag.com

        Comment

        • KaiserSosa
          Speed Bag Trainee
          • Oct 2014
          • 14

          #5
          I hear ya Del...

          as a nube speed bagger myself and coming from the angle of a drummer....,

          For better or worse I can't help but listen to my inner clock counting -

          eights...1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +

          counting off sixteenths 1E+A...2E+A...3E+A...4E+A

          triplets 1 Ta Ta...2 Ta Ta...3 Ta Ta...4 Ta Ta

          16th triplets...1.Ta.Ta.+.Ta.Ta...2.Ta.Ta.+.Ta.Ta

          My initial perceived challenge of punch drumming is that most western modern music is straight forward 4/4 time....and speed bag or rather maybe just beginner speed bag naturally gravitates toward grouping of 3s with the basic rebounds.

          It seems the more challenging single hits,...rolls..and reverse punches are required to be built up proficiently in order to hit along to 8ths and 16ths.

          This is certainly a "no duh" observation from the accomplished bagger...but just a newbie's first impression.

          Comment

          • Del-Striking
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2014
            • 116

            #6
            Originally posted by KaiserSosa View Post
            I hear ya Del...

            as a nube speed bagger myself and coming from the angle of a drummer....,

            For better or worse I can't help but listen to my inner clock counting -

            eights...1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +

            counting off sixteenths 1E+A...2E+A...3E+A...4E+A

            triplets 1 Ta Ta...2 Ta Ta...3 Ta Ta...4 Ta Ta

            16th triplets...1.Ta.Ta.+.Ta.Ta...2.Ta.Ta.+.Ta.Ta

            My initial perceived challenge of punch drumming is that most western modern music is straight forward 4/4 time....and speed bag or rather maybe just beginner speed bag naturally gravitates toward grouping of 3s with the basic rebounds.

            It seems the more challenging single hits,...rolls..and reverse punches are required to be built up proficiently in order to hit along to 8ths and 16ths.

            This is certainly a "no duh" observation from the accomplished bagger...but just a newbie's first impression.
            That's why linking, double punches, split fists and side double punches are so important to have in one's bag of tricks. There's so many other combo's that keep things interesting. Those circle punches consisting of 4 triplets work fine with 4/4 time but obviously boredom will set-in. This activity appears to be an exercise in improvisation with limitless styles and possibilities as long as beat and rhythm are kept. Like Zaza said go with the flow. Nice chatting with you KS.

            Comment

            • Del-Striking
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2014
              • 116

              #7
              Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
              Yes. as long as you can make the bag understand it, your system will work fine.

              Thanks Alan, I kinda thought so, this is definitely an improvisation activity. Got a lot to learn, trying to see if I can plan a trip to speedbag VI 2015. Would love to see you guys hitting up close and personal.

              Comment

              • Speedbag
                Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                • Feb 2006
                • 7109

                #8
                Originally posted by KaiserSosa View Post
                I hear ya Del...

                as a nube speed bagger myself and coming from the angle of a drummer....,

                For better or worse I can't help but listen to my inner clock counting -

                eights...1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +

                counting off sixteenths 1E+A...2E+A...3E+A...4E+A

                triplets 1 Ta Ta...2 Ta Ta...3 Ta Ta...4 Ta Ta

                16th triplets...1.Ta.Ta.+.Ta.Ta...2.Ta.Ta.+.Ta.Ta

                My initial perceived challenge of punch drumming is that most western modern music is straight forward 4/4 time....and speed bag or rather maybe just beginner speed bag naturally gravitates toward grouping of 3s with the basic rebounds.

                It seems the more challenging single hits,...rolls..and reverse punches are required to be built up proficiently in order to hit along to 8ths and 16ths.

                This is certainly a "no duh" observation from the accomplished bagger...but just a newbie's first impression.
                Beginner speed bag "beat" does concentrate (usually) on the basic punching pattern of using "triplet" (3) rebounds, however once you learn to pass the fists through the bag then the double bounce beat created by this also becomes a very stable home beat to use in punch drumming.

                If you are an accomplished or well trained drummer however you can over think the speed bag and it's different repetitive beat patterns. Particularly when getting off into 8ths and sixteenths. You do have a lot of creative possibilities on the speed bag when punch drumming but not nearly as much as when playing "with sticks" on a drum. The drummer with sticks or hand is completely free to vary accent and speed on every hit, but on the speed bag you are much more limited. Consider the speed bag as "the stick", for it is the connection between your hand and the board (drum). As soon as the bag leaves your fist and is "floating" in the arc of the rebound, you have no control of accent (force) or speed of movement, for your hand is off the bag. In that regard, the "swinging rebounds" (unpunched) are set and you cannot vary them. Consider the Triplet rhythm. the first (punched) rebound is the loudest, and the second and third are progressively softer. You cannot alter the sound pattern or speed of the second and third rebounds. You cannot make the last (3rd) rebound louder then the second, or first. The drummer with sticks, or on bongo's can absolutely change the accent pattern of triplets, putting the emphasis on any stroke he wants, and speeding up or slowing down on every single hit, so he has far more rhythmic variations at his disposal than on a speed bag.

                So, the sound pattern of the basic rhythm is set and that holds true for every other combination on the speed bag. You simply cannot change the accent patterns of speed bag combinations for you have no control of the swinging rebounds. But the relevant part of this for our purposes is: The swinging rebounds don't count in punch drumming. They add variety to the sound obviously, and you may have to adjust the force of your next punch to allow time for an extra rebound to occur, but the swinging rebounds offer nothing to you for keeping time to music on the bag, other than having to allow time for them to happen. The biggest secret in Punch Drumming I could offer is that only the PUNCHED rebound matters to keep time with a song. You must adjust punching force to allow time for the unpunched (swinging) rebounds to occur, but those swinging rebounds tell you nothing about where you are in the measure or when to hit again. Trying to count eighths and sixteenths with rebounds can become overwhelming, and to my mind at least, useless - for keeping time.

                The triplet rhythm of the bag works awesome for songs in 3/4 time. Just punch on every beat when you tap your foot. Try it with the theme from Contender.

                Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


                (* yes, it's fast!).


                Another song In 3/4 is Piano Man by Billy Joel.

                In 1973, Billy Joel released his legendary Piano Man album. Watch the official HD music video for the title track "Piano Man."Listen to Billy Joel: https://b...




                Feel the pulse of the song, tap your foot on the main beats, then punch when your foot hits the floor. Adjust your power until the 3 rebounds of the triplet rhythm feel in time to the music. If your beat is too slow or too fast, you will adjust the bag speed on the next PUNCH. You can't control the swinging rebounds. Once you get the triplet rhythm in time to the song, then you can move the triplet rhythm from the front of the bag to the back (reverse area) by doing a Double Punch on the side you are going to (Reverse Double Punch RDP in this case) and make sure the last (SECOND) fist hits the bag "on the beat". Consider the lead fist of that double punch as a pick up beat, kind of like the first stick of a flam. You will find in almost every case you will double punch on the side you are going to - to change sides of the bag and stay there for a few punches. There is a method to much of the madness to punch drumming, but counting every rebound isn't one of them.

                at least for me. I never count when I do it, only when I'm trying to explain it.



                Last edited by Speedbag; 11-01-2014, 01:22 AM.
                Speed Bag

                Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                The Quest Continues...
                Hoping for another Gathering...


                sigpic

                The Art of the Bag

                Comment

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