Attaching platform to brick

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  • Pegasos
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2007
    • 110

    Attaching platform to brick

    Alright, i would like anyone's help on this problem i m having, but i would only like serious answers of knowledgeable people, not what you 'think' may work out... because i ve had it with this thing and i m about to rip it all off the wall and throw it away..




    In the above thread i m describing how i build my platform initially..

    now, i replaced the wood some time ago, its thicker and lighter, producing less vibration than that piece of junk i had initially...



    Here is my platform now, i simple replaced the wood as i said (i also found it thrown away somewhere )

    So, the problem began when i first drilled the holes in my wall. By mistake i made one of the holes a liiitle bigger than i should, a few milimetres lets say. So, i then put the plastic plugs and the screws in (plastic plugs suitable for that wall, its not cement). But, when the whole platform was at place, that screw in the bigger hole was a little bit loose, and the vibrations made the aluminium support you see above step away from the wall at that spot. That same thing happened with one other screw and plug.

    So, i took of the right support and replaced two of the loose plugs with larger plugs and larger screws.. this happened again, and i replaced them both with even larger plugs and screws..

    BUT, still the problematic plug is NOT STABLE and with the vibration it gets detached from the wall when i practice, up to half and inch or so! This results in f@cking up my whole workout, since one of the two supports is firmly in place no matter how hard i hit the speedbag, while the other is loose and f@cked up... and i dont know how to fix this.

    So, here are the screws in the plugs as you can see below:




    the left is the original, and the right is the replaced one, very much larger as you can see..

    The same with the down screws. This large one you see on the right is the one that causes all the problems! It jumps up to 1-2cm off the wall due to the force of the vibration, and when i pluged it it was REALLY tight. The reason you see these screws so larger then the ones on the left support, is that because of the vibration and the loose plug the hole in the wall was getting bigger and bigger, and i had to use larger and larger plugs.. this one you see is the largest i could find, i ve reached the limit..



    I m not sure how to fix this situation. I recently saw this page:



    It says:
    "For most bedroom or finished wall setups, it is recommended to create a two or three strip wall frame of light lumber (1x4 boards) and attach the speed bag vertical mounts to the wood rather than directly to the wall. For cement or cinder block walls, it is recommended to place horizontal wood runners on the wall (with proper attaching hardware for the wall surface) and attach the brackets of the speed bag unit to the wood. "

    So, all this problem with vibration unpluging my screws and F@CKING UP my wall, could be because of the fact i am using library support aluminium things attached directly to the wall??? Would this not occur if i had these support things first attached to wood, and the wood attached to the wall? Or should i just make pure wooden support for my platform, as many friends in here have done in their homemade platforms?

    If i made some wooden support, HOW would i attach it to the wall? With plastic plugs? With nails perhaps?!

    If i use wood upon the aluminium support, then how would i attach it to the wall??? I would use the same plastic plugs? Or should i find much longer ones to cover both wood distance and the wall? Or some other way?

    Its a pity cause i have found the proper wood and one of the two supports is really firm on the wall, its that small problem with the loose plug that became bigger and bigger and is now resulted in catastrophe: imagine having a platform where the left part stays in place always and the right part vibrates 1-2cm away from the wall in each hit... is that nerve breaking or what..



    Its not a bad construction overall and i want it to work adequately..


    Any help appreciated...
  • Chris M
    Speed Bag Guru
    • Mar 2006
    • 750

    #2
    You've got two problems.

    The first problem is that you must install the platform brace screws into a stud in the wall. The plastic plugs and drywall anchors will not work at all. I'm surprised it lasted more than a couple of hits.

    The second problem is the shelf brackets you're using. Because they flex so much, it actually makes it stay anchored into a wall because it will cause so much vibration.

    I'm afraid you're going to continue to have nothing but problems with that setup.

    I know it may not be cheap, but I suggest you look at buying a commercially made platform or make your frame out of 2x4's. Either way, you've got to find the studs in the wall and anchor them with at least 3 inch screws. through the drywall and into the studs. Anything less than that will be a continual headache.

    Comment

    • Pegasos
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2007
      • 110

      #3
      Originally posted by Chris M View Post
      You've got two problems.

      The first problem is that you must install the platform brace screws into a stud in the wall. The plastic plugs and drywall anchors will not work at all. I'm surprised it lasted more than a couple of hits.

      The second problem is the shelf brackets you're using. Because they flex so much, it actually makes it stay anchored into a wall because it will cause so much vibration.

      I'm afraid you're going to continue to have nothing but problems with that setup.

      I know it may not be cheap, but I suggest you look at buying a commercially made platform or make your frame out of 2x4's. Either way, you've got to find the studs in the wall and anchor them with at least 3 inch screws. through the drywall and into the studs. Anything less than that will be a continual headache.

      Well as i have repeatedly said i am a novice, and dont know much about these things. So, although it maybe is a lot to ask, i will have to know exactly what it is we re talking about, since i m not a native english speaker..:

      1. what kind of brace screws are you talking about? could you provide a pic perhaps?

      2. what are 'studs'? and what 'studs in the wall'??

      3. a 2x4's frame? What does the 2 and 4 measure??? And what is that frame made of? Wood??

      4. 'anchor' the screws? you mean like putting them in the wall without a plug?





      These peole at the stores i ve been, always told me that plastic plugs with screws is the way to go!

      Comment

      • Chris M
        Speed Bag Guru
        • Mar 2006
        • 750

        #4
        Originally posted by Pegasos View Post
        Well as i have repeatedly said i am a novice, and dont know much about these things. So, although it maybe is a lot to ask, i will have to know exactly what it is we re talking about, since i m not a native english speaker..:

        1. what kind of brace screws are you talking about? could you provide a pic perhaps? Any old wood screw, that is at least 3 inches long and approximately 1/4 inch in diameter. (sorry I don't know the metric equivalents)

        2. what are 'studs'? and what 'studs in the wall'?? See the link I provided below

        3. a 2x4's frame? What does the 2 and 4 measure??? And what is that frame made of? Wood?? A 2x4 is your common everyday wood used for construction. They actually measure 1 1/2 inches by 3 1/2 inches. They are commonly made of pine or spruce.

        4. 'anchor' the screws? you mean like putting them in the wall without a plug? See below.





        These peole at the stores i ve been, always told me that plastic plugs with screws is the way to go!

        First of all, I meant no offense, I just want to be perfectly honest and be helpful at the same time.

        When I say the screws must go into the studs,, here is what I am referring to:



        The screws must go through the drywall and into the vertical wood 2x4's. You need to do this for both sides of your platform mounts.

        You need to get wood screws at least 3 inches long, you're going to want to use a screw that is about 1/4 inch in diameter and the screw will need to go through your drywall and into the stud. The building code in the US is 16 inches apart, so you may want to ask what the code is where you live. Here in the US, if I find one stud, there is going to be (with some exceptions) a stud exactly 16 inches to the right or left of it.

        One way to find a stud is to find an electrical outlet or switch, then remove the cover plate and you can usually see behind the junction box to see the stud on the right or the left of the junction box. At that point you can get a tape measure and measure off 16 inch increments to find the stud you want.

        Drywall will not support a speedbag platform that is being used for very long, no matter how good the hanger or plastic thing is, drywall is pretty flimsy and doesn't put up with much abuse. Trust me on that one, I just got done drywalling my kitchen, that crap is way too flimsy.

        For that matter, plaster and lath wasn't that much better, but it sure is a mess to tear out, I've done that too many times and hope and pray that I never have to remove an old plaster wall or ceiling again.
        Last edited by Chris M; 07-15-2007, 10:29 AM.

        Comment

        • Chris M
          Speed Bag Guru
          • Mar 2006
          • 750

          #5
          Perhaps this will help. See the photo below? This is what a wall looks like when it doesn't have any drywall installed. The wooden beams that run up and down are the studs. Note the shelf brackets? I installed them using wood screws directly into the studs.

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          Note the picture that has the close up of the shelf bracket. You're going to want to do the same thing only there will be drywall between the bracket and the stud.

          I know it's frustrating, and we're dealing with a language barrier also. Let us/me know if you need any help. We'll get it going, don't worry!

          Comment

          • Pegasos
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2007
            • 110

            #6
            Originally posted by Chris M View Post

            I know it's frustrating, and we're dealing with a language barrier also. Let us/me know if you need any help. We'll get it going, don't worry!

            Ha ha ha...

            I appreciate your time man, i really do, but i m afraid there are more than language barriers between us. I doubt we ll get it going simply based on our good intentions only!

            I finally understood what studs in the wall are, after a small search in the net..

            The thing is friend, that using wood inside wall is unheard of in my parts..

            Let me tell you what my room and my house is made of. The wall that my speedbag platform is attached to now, is made out of about one inch of plaster and inside there is BRICK, with another layer of plaster in the other side in the other room. Not wood! (one inch is 2,5 centimetres, one metre is 100 centimetres, one metre is about 3 feet). And that is true for all the walls in my apartment! I m afraid the only stud in this house is me! (HEHEHEHE)

            Anyway, you do realize how hopeless i am now that i found out this bitter truth. The only thing i can do is drive plastic plugs inside the plaster and brick and put screws inside them, but the bouncing and vibration eventually makes the plugs go loose and fcuk up the plaster, widening the holes...

            I am using a dictionary as i write, in order to provide accurate translations and make you understand what i m talking about. So, i just called my mother and asked her: how did the guy who put the air conditioner made it stable? As far as i know its the heaviest thing attached to a wall in this house. She said, he used the same plastic plugins, BUT he also uses probably some form of gum/resin, almost as strong as cement, to stabilize the plugs and strengthen them. Thats what i m thinking of using next.

            So, thats what the walls are made of..

            The ceilings though, are all made of massive concrete with iron bars runing from side to side. That is the place to hang heavy objects from and with a big iron plug and screw, i ve never had any problems with my heavy bag hanging from there....

            So, since i now realize this is the case, EVEN if i buy a comercial platform, i will still have the same problem, right?

            A platform like this one: http://www.healthstores.gr/product.a...252&prid=42252

            what do you think?

            damn i m doomed to not having a proper speedbag to use..

            Comment

            • SupergeZ
              Speed Bag Guru
              • Mar 2007
              • 282

              #7
              what about mounting one from the celing rather than a wall? get a good anchor then

              Comment

              • Tim
                Administrator and Founder of SpeedBagForum.com


                • Jan 2006
                • 3428

                #8
                Originally posted by Pegasos View Post
                Let me tell you what my room and my house is made of. The wall that my speedbag platform is attached to now, is made out of about one inch of plaster and inside there is BRICK, with another layer of plaster in the other side in the other room.
                Can you mount a remove the 1 inch of plaster and connect it direct to the brick? Or mount wood directly on the brick? That would probably help.

                Comment

                • Chris M
                  Speed Bag Guru
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 750

                  #9
                  I am sure they have the equivalent of Tapcon screws where you live. If not, they can be ordered online.

                  I have both of my speed bags mounted in brick and I had them both previously mounted in brick by using Tapcon Screws. You'll want to drill out the hole first with the size recommended for whatever screw you are using. The drill bit needs to be one size smaller than the Tapcon screw. You'll want to get some at least 2 1/2 inches long, preferably 3 inches. (or it's metric equivalent.)

                  Here's a link to Tapcon screws. http://www.concretescrews.com/ I wouldn't mess with the plastic things. I suspect what is happening is that the plastic inserts are only going as far as the plaster, and you want to anchor into the brick. That plaster is not very strong as you have found out.

                  By the way, it is very easy to patch those holes using some spackling compound. Fill it in, let it dry, sand it, put on another coat of spackle, and sand it again, it will look like new.

                  Comment

                  • Pegasos
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 110

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Tim View Post
                    Can you mount a remove the 1 inch of plaster and connect it direct to the brick? Or mount wood directly on the brick? That would probably help.

                    Actually, the plastic plugs i m using are about 2 inches long. I drilled through the plaster and through some brick too. I dont see why connecting mostly to the brick would be of any help, since bricks are hollow, have holes in them... it hasnt been of much help to me the way i ve driled so far in them, i dont see any difference. Are you both talking about using naked screws on the bricks, or plugs?

                    Comment

                    • speedbag4life
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2007
                      • 139

                      #11
                      Hope this helps-- I've mounted a home-made board onto concrete cinderblock before, using the same type of brackets you showed in your picture (well, maybe a little heavier duty, but similar), and it was pretty solid. I didn't use the plastic plugs though. I used metal anchors, the kind that have arms that flip out to the sides, making a T once you pop them into the hole you've drilled. The tighter you screw the screws into them, the more the arms pull into the cinderblock (on the inside), making a very strong connection. It held up for as long as I lived in the house. --Millions, maybe billions, of punches.

                      Comment

                      • Pegasos
                        Senior Member
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 110

                        #12
                        Originally posted by speedbag4life View Post
                        Hope this helps-- I've mounted a home-made board onto concrete cinderblock before,

                        Unfortunately, in my wall there is this simple type of ceramic bricks:

                        Comment

                        • speedbag4life
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 139

                          #13
                          oh wow. i'm outta my league with those bricks. good luck!!

                          Comment

                          • Chris M
                            Speed Bag Guru
                            • Mar 2006
                            • 750

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Pegasos View Post
                            Unfortunately, in my wall there is this simple type of ceramic bricks:

                            Those are somewhat similar to our cinder block walls. You need to have a screw penetrate all the way through the brick. The bricks are much harder than the plaster since they are baked and would be able to hold a screw. That plaster is not of uniform thickness and it's not very hard at all.

                            If you can't get Tapcons or something similar, try one of those metal anchors that expand or crush when you tighten a screw into it.

                            Comment

                            • Pegasos
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 110

                              #15
                              Actually, now there are three kind of plugs in my wall.

                              Plastic plugs for plaster of different sizes

                              Plastic plugs for concrete

                              Metal plug-anchor for concrete.

                              All these are half in plaster and half in the brick.

                              Its a complicated situation. The first plugs for plaster i put, are solidly being held in there till this day. All the problems started with the right bracket, where the holes were made a bit larger by mistake, the plugs loosened and and were replaced and replaced by the bigger and bigger sizes till now that i have one big plug for concrete which holds good AND one very big plug for plaster that is fcuked up and even though it was very tight when it went in, it starts to loosens by the use of the speedbag, with the unfortunate results i have mentioned in the previous posts. Plastic plugs for concrete and plastic plugs for plaster and different in the way they open up when the screw tightens in. The metal plug i ve put, seems ok, but since it is only half in the brick, the part that is in the plaster starts to eat it very slowly around it..

                              The guy in the hardware store, informed me of two solutions:

                              1. To use only the plastic plugs for concrete and to put a form of mastic - putty - stucco (dictionary translations, dont know which is the best to use here) that he has, in the holes where the plugs will go. This will stabilize them he said.

                              2. To use a long piece of iron he had, throughout the whole wall, through the brick and to the other side. The insert a round metal on one side, attached to the wall to provide resistance, and a screw on the side i m using..

                              Comment

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