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Old 06-10-2017, 11:15 AM
Davidlwilkie Davidlwilkie is offline
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sube me la radio

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  #2  
Old 06-12-2017, 12:51 PM
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Speedbag Speedbag is offline
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You put some really nice syncopated combination beats on this. I Like your use of the reverse direction Front Fist Rolls (F-Roll) and the use of Side Double Punches (SDP). You've got great control of those and are starting to feel that syncopated groove.

You could jump to a Double time on this song, especially using Front Double Punch (FDP) to Reverse Double Punch (RDP) and Side Double (SDP) to Side Double. (SDP).

especially at 1:34- 1:37....listen to that phrasing to the end of that measure. Seems like that is the end/last measure of a longer 4 bar phrase, and it all stops for a beat on 1:37 for a beat - a new section or phrasing in the song starts at 1:37. The last few bars build to that stop. You could throw a syncopated, double FDP ' ' RDP ' ' SDP ' ' FDP ' ' ' ' ..... RSP That combinations kind of builds to the stop.

you could emphasize that 2nd fist of that last FDP for accent and effect, which will speed the bag up a bit so you could come back from behind after 4 rebounds (that last fist passed to back of bag for the RSP)

You can get into this combo easy by anticipating it and do a F-Roll for a few beats before, SO the last two fists of the F-Roll will create the first FDP. Or you could use a Triple elbow strike for an entry to it.

You could also use a quick Basic Rhythm to this song, which will also flow easily with the faster FDP ' ' RDP ' ' SDP ' ' SDP combo. (*Basic Rhythm Punching will be faster for this song and you have to slow a bit to use syncopated combinations. Could also use FDP ' ' ' FDP....repetitive combo's in this song. As usual, 2nd fist lands ON the beat.

tip. you don't have to use the SDP ' ' SDP, you could just stay with FDP ' ' RDP ' ' FDP ' ' RDP also to avoid the rapid fist position changes.

I would suggest you also start using a few 4 rebound combinations for effect. (FSP ' ' ' ' RSP).

You're doing great!
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:24 AM
Davidlwilkie Davidlwilkie is offline
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Oh ya! I have been playing around a little with the fsp rsp with the 4 rebounds between. I'll get some new video up soon. Thanks again for all of your help. There's no local gym or anyone around here that does bible style so I've just been guessing until you told me how wrong I was doing it. Really starting to hear the syncopated rhythm now and even more addicted.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Davidlwilkie View Post
Oh ya! I have been playing around a little with the fsp rsp with the 4 rebounds between. I'll get some new video up soon. Thanks again for all of your help. There's no local gym or anyone around here that does bible style so I've just been guessing until you told me how wrong I was doing it. Really starting to hear the syncopated rhythm now and even more addicted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidlwilkie View Post
I'm sorry if you thought I was ever telling you, or ever implied that you are doing it "wrong". There is no "wrong way" to punch drum, just different ways. Like the "regular drums", there a hundreds of ways to drum to a song - none are essentially "wrong" - just different. When I mention "basic rhythm punching" style or "syncopated combinations" - they are just different different styles of punch drumming, basically accounting for (1) bag skills need and control of direction and power, and (2) understanding the bag beat and sounds of combinations. What I call Basic Rhythm style Punch Drumming is simpler and more directly felt by a listener. The bag skills required are a bit easier and even a beginner can start punch drumming using the "basic rhythm" punching combination FSP ' ' ' FCP ' ' ' FSP ' ' ' FCP. And most of the time, Basic rhythm punching is done with three rebounds inbetween (all contacts from the same side of bag - front)

With more bag skills, adding in more reverse punching, more elbows and Side techniques - one can start doing the more complex syncopated combinations - and the key to these is the SOUND they make, not the techniques themselves. And when you can learn to control the sound (accented beats) they make, and repetitively create those sounds from different directions with different techniques...that is when you can start drumming with freedom, just creating the beat sound, the groove you want to mix with the song, and have the bag control to use them with any speed of music. Slow music (such as - sube me la radio) or faster beat music.

In reality the two systems "Basic Rhythm Punching" and "Syncopating combinations" are all just punch drumming. I created all that for teaching purposes only, and helping a student move from a level of low punching drumming skill and control to great skill and control. Every drummer, of any type, has to learn to control stick position, stroke force, direction, speed and variations. It usually starts with some basic rudiments for stick control, adding more and more of them, until you can flow between them all without problem. then you can add more drums, cymbals etc. and use those same rudiments to create more complex sounds and accents from around the drum set. It takes time and practice. For drum purposes - Think of the speed bag "techniques" as rudiments.

The speed bag is no different. The BAG is the stick and you have to learn control....at least in what I thought was a logical progression. That is why the Speed Bag Bible is presented in the order it is. It is a natural progression of flow and skill development, at least to me.

To TEACH punch drumming (not necessarily do it...) I teach from the simpler Basic Rhythm bag skills and sounds to the more complex combinations from all around the bag - all focusing on the sound they make. As I think you saw on those tutorial DVD's I sent, there are some change points between the systems of Basic Rhythm to syncopated combo's and the secret is the increase or decrease of hand speed/power (and bag speed) that you must anticipate when you change. I notice in your punch drumming that you are starting to feel some of those changes and flowing pretty well from one or the other, but on this song, and many of your video's - you chose to throw most combinations off the single fist pass through, almost always choosing a syncopated combination - many times trying to throw a specific combo that might not have the best beat pattern for where you are using it, so you fall off beat a bit, ...indicating you are focusing more on throwing certain techniques and combinations - not necessarily keeping the bag beat with the song. (like - "i want to throw that phantom punch combo.." but it goes off beat) And that's fine, for you stay on beat about half the time, - but when you stop focusing on throwing certain skills and more on the actually bag beat you will clean that up a bit.

A tip: If you favor certain combinations to use and want to work them into your punch drumming (I think you do...) Make a metronome tape about 90 beats a minute (or 80, whatever - but keep it fairly slow right now) like this
... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6ii1YRFwns

Punch to this and try learning to throw that combinations so the natural accented punches in that combo can be synced to the beat. When you can do that, then learn to get "into" and come "out of" that combo to something simple like Front Double Punching or Front Fist Rolling, right on beat. Get that down and soon you will start feeling when in the measure you can throw that combo and keep it on beat. I would say there are key rules to this, but I'd be lying. Me personally, I'm kind of keyed to the "down beat" ( "1" ) of the measure and always know where it is, But you don't have to be. Some other Great Punch Drummers like speedbagataraxis (matt santiago) and "Speedbagdragon" Brian Tichy (drummer of Billy Idol, Foreigner, whitesnake...many others)
start and end speed bag combinations at different beats of the measure (other than 1..) and make it work just great. They "hit to music" and interpret a song on the bag totally different from me and they stay dead on beat. You can learn to do it also, I'm just trying to show you some ways to get the control to get their faster.



Matth Santiago - memory lane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npZqCT-Quzo




Brian Tichy - Limelight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaM-Ja6KTls

__________________
Speed Bag

Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
*attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
The Quest Continues...
Onward to SpeedB.A.G. VIII! Summer 2017



The Art of the Bag

Last edited by Speedbag; 06-13-2017 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 03:57 PM
Davidlwilkie Davidlwilkie is offline
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Thank you again for all the advice. I felt you weren't being mean but rather helpful when you started helping me with my bagging. I am not or have never been a boxer at any level and same as a musician. I saw someone do a front double punch one time and decided I needed to be able to do it. I started to play around a bit on the bag and one day googled speed bag tricks. That was where I started. The music makes me want to do it more. I hear how great you all (Matthew,Brian, etc etc )sound and decided I needed to be able to do that also. With no gym or bible style anything around here that I know of I was trying to figure it out on my own with the videos I could find on Youtube. Your help, I feel, has put me on the right track. Thanks again.
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