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  #1  
Old 01-04-2008, 08:31 PM
Tim Tim is offline
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Analysis of Rocky Greiner's advanced Combos

http://speedbag-advocate.com/default.aspx

Some interesting combinations in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4xrxsb5m-4&NR=1

I really like that alternating I-DES he's doing at 0:27 - 0:34. I think I'll go try it now...

Last edited by Tim; 01-04-2009 at 05:08 PM.
  #2  
Old 01-04-2008, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Actually, you have seen them (and him) before, for "Rocky" (Pete) Greiner is this guy....

Amazing Speed Bag combination (* I'm still fascinated by that combo.. )

83 year old speed bagger...

Note that he has modified his swivel so it "locks" into a position for hitting from the front, or from the side. He also made his own board and pole attachment. He lives down by Ernie in Sarasota Florida.
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Last edited by Speedbag; 01-04-2008 at 09:21 PM.
  #3  
Old 01-04-2008, 09:51 PM
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I thought he looked familiar!

So he's actually doing a triple strike with each arm?

Fist - Elbow - Fist
Change Arms
Fist - Elbow - Fist

???? Like an I-DES and an O-DES melded together?

Last edited by Tim; 01-04-2008 at 09:54 PM.
  #4  
Old 01-04-2008, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
I thought he looked familiar!

So he's actually doing a triple strike with each arm?

Fist - Elbow - Fist
Change Arms
Fist - Elbow - Fist

???? Like an I-DES and an O-DES melded together?
Writing this depends on which unique combo you are talking about. He does a few really interesting ones.

for the alternating inward elbow combo, you could write this several ways. He normally starts this from a Front-Fist Roll (F-Roll) : or actually Front fist "riveting" (continuous Front Straight Punching with one rebound inbetween).

I find it easiest to write this combo using the Inward-Triple Elbow Strike (I-TES), and he is doing an advance front punching combo of continuous alternating Inward- Triple Elbow Strikes.

Consider the I-TES. A lead fist hits in FCP position (side of fist), then the second fist hits in FSP position (front of fist), then the forearm point of elbow hits the bag - all with only one rebound inbetween. This ends with your body turned and you elbow in the middle of the board. (awkward). From here, you could alternate the other side I-TES after 3 rebounds, but it is a difficult combination. He actually advances it, by alternating to the other side after 1 rebound, (which I call an "advanced combo" , using 1 rebound instead of 3).

I would write it the short way, like this:

.L/R-R.......R/L-L
(I-TES) ' (I-TES) ' ....repeat.
.f/f-E.........f/f-E

He does not make an outward elbow contact in this particular combination.

It might be easier to "imagine" seeing the fist contacts as a Front Double Punch (FDP), with the lead fist hitting the side of the fist in Front Circle Punch (FCP) Position, and the second fist hitting in Front Straight Punch (*FSP) position. (* this is KEY, for you can't do this combo if the second fist hits the side of the fist. You really have to hit the front knuckles, moving the fist directly inward to the bag, which allows the elbow position to correctly line up for the inward single elbow)

It could also be writteng like this:

.L-R.......R.........R-L.........L
(FDP) ' I-SES ' (FDP) ' I-SES' ....repeat

or written like this with each individual contact:

L.........R........R.......R......L........L..
FCP ' FSP ' I-SES ' FCP ' FSP ' I-SES' ....repeat


For the Record, the only other people I have seen perform this specific combo fast and in a controlled manner are Zach "speed bag skunk" Ruffo, and Billymack - both doing it remarkedly on small 8x5 or 9x6 bags.


BillyMack almost separates the fists in this combo
and make it an Inward-Double Elbow Strike ' Fist combo when he does it. I would write that like this:

..R-R.....R.......L-L........L
I-DES ' FCP ' I-DES ' FCP
..f-e.....................f-e

It is the same Rist-Elbow sequence but opened up a bit. It is an interesting method and he does it very smoothly.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Rocky also does some original combo's with the Outward Elbow and Hook Punch, but if you notice - he changes the swivel before he does this.

Regardless of the swivel, these are some really difficult and well done combinations.
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  #5  
Old 01-04-2008, 11:14 PM
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It could also be seen as:
......L.............R
(O-SSP) ' ((I-DES) ', swap ' repeat.

Its tricky, every time I do the swap the bag just wants to roll along my arm on the (I-DES), but as far as dificulty goes for me, #3 on P-152 of the 'Bible', advanced skills and combinations takes the cake.

"Ohh - Heck", I know its only #3 and I've still got another 5x# to get through, but those super advanced punch patterns quite hard to maintain accurate consistancy. As far as progress goes, I have hit through to the begining of #5 successfully, but only once.

"Hey"! You guy's got any idea on how I can get one of those DVD's by speedbag-advocate over here to Australia? Maybe I could send someone a pre-paid return envelope... Any assistance would be appreciated and returned. Thank you.

Last edited by Roc Stone; 01-04-2008 at 11:43 PM.
  #6  
Old 01-05-2008, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Stone View Post
It could also be seen as:
......L.............R
(O-SSP) ' ((I-DES) ', swap ' repeat.

Its tricky, every time I do the swap the bag just wants to roll along my arm on the (I-DES), but as far as dificulty goes for me, #3 on P-152 of the 'Bible', advanced skills and combinations takes the cake.

"Ohh - Heck", I know its only #3 and I've still got another 5x# to get through, but those super advanced punch patterns quite hard to maintain accurate consistancy. As far as progress goes, I have hit through to the begining of #5 successfully, but only once.

"Hey"! You guy's got any idea on how I can get one of those DVD's by speedbag-advocate over here to Australia? Maybe I could send someone a pre-paid return envelope... Any assistance would be appreciated and returned. Thank you.
What is so hard for you on #3, page 152??

1. I'm assuming you can do the (S-TES) ' ' (S-TES) ' ' (D-TES) alright? ( also called a "triple triple")

2. What about the (D-TES) ' (SSP) ' (RDP) ? (* see Ex 7 page 150. it's the same combo.)

3. or maybe the middle (SSP) ' (RDP) '' (FSP) '' (RSP)? ( split fist combo )

I suspect #2 is the hardest to figure out. The lead fist of the D-TES hits the front of the bag and will do the SSP. (just like FCP ' ' SSP with same arm. It just has to wait for the Elbow-Fist to clear). The second fist of the D-TES hits and goes behind to lead the RDP.

Where is your break down in this combo?
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  #7  
Old 01-05-2008, 03:16 AM
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Its the the L ' (SSD) that I have problems connecting with, still developing the rythm for it. I have tried angling the last fist of the (D-TES) to set up for the L(SSD)*!@%, but I just have not yet got a grip on performing it cleanly, on a consistant basis. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn't, and yes I do move the L lead fist to a stand by position in anticipation. But its just not clicking for me yet. "Practice, exercise..."

Because this is creating a bit of a barrier at this point it disrupts my continuing the compltetion of the pattern.
  #8  
Old 01-05-2008, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Stone View Post
Its the the L ' (SSD) that I have problems connecting with, still developing the rythm for it. I have tried angling the last fist of the (D-TES) to set up for the L(SSD)*!@%, but I just have not yet got a grip on performing it cleanly, on a consistant basis. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn't, and yes I do move the L lead fist to a stand by position in anticipation. But its just not clicking for me yet. "Practice, exercise..."

Because this is creating a bit of a barrier at this point it disrupts my continuing the compltetion of the pattern.
If you mean the LEAD Left Fist of the D-TES, then maybe try the left fist movement without the Downward Elbow motion.

Actually, the D-TES is nothing more than a Front Double Punch (FDP) with an Elbow in the Middle . So, just substitute a FDP for the
D-TES.

.L-L/R.....R-R/L......L-R.....L......R-L
S-TES ' ' S-TES ' ' FDP ' SSP ' RDP

or you can change the D-TES to an easier Outward-Elbow Strike (that is just a FDP with an elbow in front.)

The lead fist which goes to the SSP can connect on the side-rear area of the bag, much like a RSP, just slightly more on the side.

But on these super-advanced combo's your are right that "sometimes you get them, so times you don't" because it all happens really quick with only one rebound inbetween.
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  #9  
Old 01-05-2008, 09:11 AM
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Thanks Alan. You were able to decipher my incorrect symbols (SSD)-(SSP), grasp my meaning and provide me with options. I like that.

Say! would you be able to do up a vid of that entire routine, from #1 - #8. Would love to see it in motion.
  #10  
Old 01-05-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedbag View Post
.L/R-R.......R/L-L
(I-TES) ' (I-TES) ' ....repeat.
.f/f-E.........f/f-E
Thanks! that helps a lot. I've got the F-ROLL ' I-TES going now, but I can't do the I-TES ' I-TES yet... I think that part is going to take a lot more practice. My I-TES when leading with the right is really weak. I don't hit with the point of the elbow well, so I have to bring that up to speed first.

Quote:
BillyMack almost separates the fists in this combo and make it an Inward-Double Elbow Strike ' Fist combo when he does it. I would write
Sigh... he's make it look SO easy in that video clip!
 

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