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Old 01-09-2019, 09:20 PM
Mydogsparty Mydogsparty is offline
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The front fist roll.

Everytime I watch some videos of experts hitting the bag in all different directions they eventually throw in a few front fist rolls here and there. They make it look so easy.

I can do a pretty good fist roll if itís the first move Iím making but I canít, for the life of me, rip one out in the middle of a routine when Iím coming off another combination thatís moving at full speed. Whenever I try it, Iíll get two rolls (a left and right) but then I make the s-hook chunk and Iíll miss hit the third punch in the roll. Am I missing something?
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:13 PM
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BagBoy BagBoy is offline
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Time, practice, and maybe slow down..? I only say that because you mention "full speed" Once I learned to really relax and not try to force things I found that things fell into place much easier and smoother. Not sure if that helps. You'll get it, and then it will be like walking.
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:52 PM
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Speedbag Speedbag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mydogsparty View Post
Everytime I watch some videos of experts hitting the bag in all different directions they eventually throw in a few front fist rolls here and there. They make it look so easy.

I can do a pretty good fist roll if it’s the first move I’m making but I can’t, for the life of me, rip one out in the middle of a routine when I’m coming off another combination that’s moving at full speed. Whenever I try it, I’ll get two rolls (a left and right) but then I make the s-hook chunk and I’ll miss hit the third punch in the roll. Am I missing something?
Hey Mydogsparty - You are missing something - that 3rd punch

This could be for several reasons, contact position on the bag, bag angle at contact, speed of the 3rd punch ..... there is really no telling. Except, something in the first and second punch set the bag off course or speed. The sound could be the key. IF your hearing the swivel chunk that usually indicates the bag is moving UP from the contact, indicating you hit below the belly on the contact, indicating that the bag was probably too far into that rebound, passed the center point and your fist contact hit "under the bag belly" pushing the bag upward. How does that happen?? Well If your first two fists hit fine...on the belly with a good contact and rebound angle, then this may mean that your 3rd fist moved to the bag slower, allowing the bag to go past diagonal and you hit under the belly. OR, that second fist hit harder, speeding the bag up and the increase in bag speed made your 3rd fist hit late because you did not compensate for the increase bag speed. Either way you probably need to work on control going FROM and TO Front Fist Rolling (F-Roll).

Suggestions.

1. Try doing this FROM Front Fist Rolls (F-Roll). Do a 5 punch fist roll R-L-R-L-R

note this started on the Right Fist and the right fist is the ODD count 1-3-5. ON count 5 stop rolling and let the R fist continue in triple rhythm of two or three punches, then start another 5 punch roll. This will get you OUT and IN to a F-Roll from a F-Roll. Do this until it feels comfortable, then start the Roll with your Left fist. Same thing...so you can get used to starting and stopping with either fist. OK, now when that feels comfortable, You can let the last fist (punch 5) hit the bag and pass through to the Reverse Single Punch (RSP). Here you have two options. You can do a continuous pass through from Reverse Single Punch (RSP) to Front Circle Punch (FCP) with two rebound inbetween, written (RSP) ' ' (FCP), and then after a few times you can use the FCP contact to start the Froll. again 5 punch roll, let the last fist pass through. Written like this:

F-Roll x5 ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' RSP ' ' F-Roll

R-L-R-L-R ' ' R ' ' R ' ' R ' ' R ' ' R ' ' F-Roll (then do leading with Left fist)

Remember IF that last fist remains behind the bag you would do continuous RSP in triplet rhythm. Then it can back and start F-Roll)

F-Roll x5 ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' F-Roll - Remember Red is the pass through

NOW Try going from the 5 punch F-Roll TO the Front Double Punch (FDP) .

F-Roll x5 (RLRLR) ' ' ' FDP (R-L)

Here you let that last Right Fist, return to lead the FDP after "3" rebounds.
Then do FOUR FDP's and return and start a F-Roll again. Looks like this:

F-Rollx5 ' ' ' FDP ' ' ' FDP ' ' ' FDP ' ' ' FDP ' ' ' F-Roll

RLRLR ' ' ' R-L ' ' ' L-R ' ' ' R-L ' ' ' L-R ' ' ' RLRLR........

you could advance this to let the 5th contact by the right fist to actually be the lead fist of the FDP. (a ha! this would mean you go RLRLR ' L...adding the left fist after on rebound, kind of making it a 6 punch roll, but think of it as the second fist of the FDP.

You can also let the Last (2nd fist) of the FDP actually begin the F-Roll. THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE HAVING TROUBLE WITH, linking the F-Roll to the last technique. The earlier exercises help build control of the Roll and going to different techniques with 3 or 2 rebounds. Now you want the F-Roll to begin with the last fist of that last technique. The FDP is the easiest to learn this from, (since the FDP is actually just a 2 punch F-Roll )

Once you can do that you should be able to transition from F-ROLL to FDP at any time before or after the Roll, using the last fist of the roll or the last fist of the FDP to be the first punch of that next technique. This will not change as you add more parts, such as an elbow. From the Outward or Downward Double or Triple Elbow strikes, the last contact is a fist, and that fist can be the first fist of the F-Roll. I covered this in the "advanced" chapter of The Speed Bag Bible -SO, after say and Outward Triple Elbow Strike (O-TES), you can link to a F-Roll after the last fist hits with "3" rebounds, which should be easy, or "advanced" by letting that last fist actually start the Roll. written like this:

O-TES ' ' ' F-Roll or

Le ' Lf ' Rf ' ' ' RLRLR

O-TES ' F-Roll

Le ' Lf ' Rf ' RLRLR

notice the R is The Same Fist

(* Remember the last to parts of the O-TES is actually a FDP...ie...
Left elbow ' Left fist ' Right fist. In the exercise about this one you did that transitions from a FDP, so this part you can already do. You just added an elbow as the lead)

Then do the same things from Reverse punching. Brings a single fist From RSP to a F-Roll, and move this to a Reverse Double Punch (RDP) to a F-Roll. don't let the extra fist in the RDP change anything. That second fist of the RDP will return to start the roll. RDP ' ' F-Roll.

You can also do F-Roll ' ' RDP ' ' ' RDP ' 'F-Roll.... moving from a F-Roll direct to reverse punching and back. Keep all movements at same power.

Try some of the above and see if it helps. Go slow, it's not a race and it will take time to do these fast, but eventually you will.


Hope it Helps.

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Last edited by Speedbag; 01-11-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 04:58 PM
Cazbag Cazbag is offline
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I would say practicing those exercises from the godfather of instructors will have you well on your way to getting the rolls down. As Speedbag has stated before once the fist rolls become part of your bagging instincts a good 5 hit roll or so is a great way to gain control and rhythm of the bag after performing other new techniques... while feeling, sounding, and looking good at the same time!
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