a little confused - FDP vs fist roll

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  • jaguiler
    Speed Bag Guru
    • Jan 2007
    • 289

    a little confused - FDP vs fist roll

    Hi - thanks to all the help by the way...

    I am a little confused - what is the difference between the FDP and the fist roll ... aren't they both just R-FCP'L-FCP ?

    Also in the rhythms section of speedbagcentral.com it describes the FDP as being two punches, R-FCP,L-FCP ' - this has no rebound inbetween the R punch and the L punch - then one rebound....

    I haven't gotten the Bible yet - which is sugeested if I only get one ? the DVD or the book ?
  • BillyMack
    • Sep 2006
    • 310

    #2
    FDP is both fists striking the bag from the front with one rebound between the fists - done in one smooth motion.

    Fist roll is each fist striking the bag alternating between fists with one rebound in between. This is a perpetual, continuous technique vs. the FDP which is simply 2 strikes of the bag.

    There will always be one rebound after you strike the bag.

    I have the book and all 4 DVDs. I've accessed the DVDs a lot more often than the book. I keep the Bible and my Title catalog near my toilet (sorry, Alan) and am fortunate enough to have a portable DVD player so I can watch the DVDs out in my garage. If I had to choose one I'd go with the DVD. The Bible is more of a textbook or reference book while the DVD is more "instructional"

    Comment

    • Chris M
      Speed Bag Guru
      • Mar 2006
      • 750

      #3
      My response would be identical to BillyMack's, only I keep my Speedbag Bible near my bed to read right before I go to sleep.

      I learned more from the first DVD than any of the others, mostly because I only knew of three punches, the FCP, FSP, and fist roll before I got the DVD.

      If you've got to pick only one, I'd recommend the first DVD. Might as well start budgeting for more stuff after you get this DVD. If you have interest in the speedbag now, the DVD will have you hooked if you're like me.

      Comment

      • jaguiler
        Speed Bag Guru
        • Jan 2007
        • 289

        #4
        ok then so doing the FDP'FDP'FDP'FDP'FDP is the same a doing a front fist roll. right ?
        except usually you combine the FDP with something else like FDP'SDP'OES - I think I got it - it's just semantics then....

        I will order DVD - thanks for the advice.

        Comment

        • Tim
          Administrator and Founder of SpeedBagForum.com


          • Jan 2006
          • 3428

          #5
          Originally posted by BillyMack View Post
          I keep the Bible and my Title catalog near my toilet (sorry, Alan)
          Betcha it gets read though! Better there then on a bookshelf gathering dust.

          Comment

          • BillyMack
            • Sep 2006
            • 310

            #6
            Originally posted by jaguiler View Post
            ok then so doing the FDP'FDP'FDP'FDP'FDP is the same a doing a front fist roll. right ?
            except usually you combine the FDP with something else like FDP'SDP'OES - I think I got it - it's just semantics then....

            Not quite, jag...it's not just a matter of semantics...

            The FDP is a single movement in which both fists contact the bag in the same motion while still allowing the bag to hit the board in between. In other words, you can count the number of FDPs you do.

            The fist roll is like turning on a blender; it's either on or off, and you can't really count the revolutions.

            If this is still unclear to you this evening I will make a short video to illustrate...

            Comment

            • Kevdawg0324
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2006
              • 146

              #7
              i keep my speedbag bible in my shirt pocket everyday so it's always right next to my heart! i never leave home without it.

              Comment

              • Chris M
                Speed Bag Guru
                • Mar 2006
                • 750

                #8
                A fist roll is when you are rolling your fists around each other in as tight a circle as you can without your fists hitting each other. The easiest way to learn how it's done is to roll your fists quickly and walk them into the bag. Pretty soon you'll figure out how to adjust your speed to a comfortable rhythm.

                There are clips on Alan's website here: http://www.speedbagcentral.com/ssp/m...=1&clientId=55 Click on speedbag combinations and you'll see a bunch of videos that will help you out. I think there are 12 of them in total.

                Thanks to Alan for having his site to help out! By the way, I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain these are clips from the DVD in case you were wondering what it was like. Alan usually explains and demonstrates each punch or combination very slowly, then he'll demonstrate it at full speed, then the video will be slowed down so it can be studied. It's a very good way to learn a new punch or combination.
                Last edited by Chris M; 01-19-2007, 05:02 PM.

                Comment

                • Chris M
                  Speed Bag Guru
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 750

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Kevdawg0324 View Post
                  i keep my speedbag bible in my shirt pocket everyday so it's always right next to my heart! i never leave home without it.
                  You must have a really big shirt pocket!

                  Comment

                  • jaguiler
                    Speed Bag Guru
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 289

                    #10
                    Originally posted by BillyMack View Post
                    Not quite, jag...it's not just a matter of semantics...

                    The FDP is a single movement in which both fists contact the bag in the same motion while still allowing the bag to hit the board in between. In other words, you can count the number of FDPs you do.

                    The fist roll is like turning on a blender; it's either on or off, and you can't really count the revolutions.

                    If this is still unclear to you this evening I will make a short video to illustrate...

                    Thanks Billy- but I thinkI know what you mean...
                    I enjoy watching everyone's videos in the video and picture section...

                    When I get the DVD I will work on it and I am sure I will be asking for video examples.....

                    When I get a real video camera I will film myself.... by that time I should be faster too...

                    Comment

                    • Speedbag
                      Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                      • Feb 2006
                      • 7109

                      #11
                      confused FDP

                      Originally posted by BillyMack View Post
                      FDP is both fists striking the bag from the front with one rebound between the fists - done in one smooth motion.

                      Fist roll is each fist striking the bag alternating between fists with one rebound in between. This is a perpetual, continuous technique vs. the FDP which is simply 2 strikes of the bag.

                      There will always be one rebound after you strike the bag.

                      I have the book and all 4 DVDs. I've accessed the DVDs a lot more often than the book. I keep the Bible and my Title catalog near my toilet (sorry, Alan) and am fortunate enough to have a portable DVD player so I can watch the DVDs out in my garage. If I had to choose one I'd go with the DVD. The Bible is more of a textbook or reference book while the DVD is more "instructional"
                      HAA!! that's a scream. No apology needed. I keep a few by the toilet myself. ( just in case the roll runs out...) Actually, It that is my "editing desk".
                      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


                      Originally posted by jaguiler View Post
                      ok then so doing the FDP'FDP'FDP'FDP'FDP is the same a doing a front fist roll. right ?
                      Actually, this could be YES and NO.

                      YES, the fist sequence of "continuous punching with ONE rebound inbetween" is the same as a Front Fist Roll.

                      But NO for several reasons:- First, the Fist Positions of doing FDP can change, and it is very difficult to do FDP 'FDP if your second fist in the FDP is in Front Straight Punch Position. Second, the swing motions of doing the F-ROLL are much easier then, with raised elbows and rolling the fists over each other. Doing it as you wrote is actually an advanced front combination combination, and not easy to do repetitively for five or six times.
                      Third, the SOUND of your combo FDP ' FDP ' FDP 'FDP (Four FDP with one rebound in between) would be completely different from a Front Fist Roll. In a Fist Roll, all the rebounds will be equal and sound very even. In the FDP combo, the second fist to hit the bag in each Double Punch will be slightly louder - for it is an actual punch, where the lead fists in your combo will have little or no force.

                      The sounds in writing would be: (* BOLD is sound emphasis)

                      Front Fist Roll: (F-Roll) R ' L ' R ' L ' R ' L

                      Advanced Front Double Punching Combo: (FDP) L' R ' R ' L ' L ' R ' R ' L

                      A fourth difference can be seen in the fist orders above: in the F-ROLL, your fist are continously alternating, L-R-L-R..... In the FDP combo, notice the second fist has to hit twice in a Row L-R ' R-L

                      Originally posted by jaguiler View Post
                      ....except usually you combine the FDP with something else like FDP ' SDP ' OES - I think I got it - it's just semantics then....

                      Wow, did you make up an incredible advanced punching combination. It also demonstrates why the BOOK is soooo important. There are NO symbols, abbreviations or methods to write speed bag combinations in the video's. All of this comes from the book, and allows US to communicate in "speed bag-ese" in text.

                      Let's break this combination down down, step-by-step.

                      FDP ' SDP This would actually be a super advanced fist punching combination, with FOUR punches in the combo ( R-L ' L-R The fourth fist: :R is from the side and connects in a Side Single Punch SSSP) Position. ). Three punches hit from the front of the bag with one rebound in between., and the fourth would come in from the side.

                      It looks like this:

                      R-L ' L-R
                      FDP..SDP

                      Try doing the above combo with Three rebounds inbetween. FDP ' ' ' SDP ( It is much easier )


                      SDP ' OES is extremely difficult, if not impossible to do on ONE rebound. Think about the direction of the fists and the bag. The second fist of the SDP hits the side of the bag and will put the First Rebound on the wrong side of the board for the Elbow of that fist to hit after one rebound.
                      The combo would be:

                      L-R ' R-??
                      SDP ' OES

                      Try it with either two or four rebounds.

                      For those that know... Try this: (SDP) ' ' (O-TES)
                      or (S-TES) ' ' (S-TES)
                      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                      All of the above Text, if you understand it, is only possible by understanding the technique names and written abbreviations, which are only found in the Speed Bag Bible Book. It is also the main reason why I wrote the Book - to have a reliable and consistent method to write down what I punched. I could not remember all the techniques and combination possibilities without some way to do that, let alone tell someone else. Before the age of Video, the written word was the only way. How would Mozart Beethovan or Brahms had passed on their gift of music, without a way to put music in writing? They had no video cameras. Learning to read music, certainly the music these composers wrote, is time consuming, but if you want to hear their music, someone has to know how to read it. And someone needs to know how to write it.

                      The book will allow YOU to write down YOUR OWN combinations. When you have the Eureka moment under the board, when (by mistake..) your fists do something you've never done before and you go "wow - what did I just do?" Then you can write it down, and remember how to do it again. It took me over 5 years to develop that system. Create names, figure rebounds, Fists, elbows etc. But it works.

                      And you guys are proving it, posting written combo's on the 'net so we can talk about them.... thanks.


                      jaguiler, send me a PM, and I'll get ya a deal on the Book. Keep it handy. in the bathroom next to the toilet
                      Last edited by Speedbag; 01-22-2007, 06:31 PM.
                      Speed Bag

                      Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                      *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                      The Quest Continues...
                      Hoping for another Gathering...


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                      The Art of the Bag

                      Comment

                      • jaguiler
                        Speed Bag Guru
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 289

                        #12
                        wow - Alan - thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond so well !! you truely are dedicated ! I guess you are doing this now to give you shoulder time to recover your explanation is very clear - I cooked up a bag of popcorn as I reviewed it several times.
                        and as far as the difficult combo..... you may have guessed that was my dog that jumped on the keyboard and typed that (i.e. I have no clue)

                        I just found out of my buddies has the DVD set and he offered it to me - but I will take you up on the book offer.... once I figure out so to send a pm

                        thanks Alan ! truely inspiring !

                        Comment

                        • Tim
                          Administrator and Founder of SpeedBagForum.com


                          • Jan 2006
                          • 3428

                          #13
                          Originally posted by jaguiler View Post
                          once I figure out so to send a pm
                          Just click on his name (Speedbag) on any post... a drop down menu should appear, and select "send a private message"

                          Comment

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